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Convention center design plan comes ‘round
Architects and planners working on a “vision” for the new convention center and the area around it presented the idea of creating a new roundabout to help spur additional development along with making Fifth Avenue a two-way street.
The roundabout would include Eighth Avenue, Lafayette Street and Korean Veterans Boulevard.
“We hope the roundabout develops the kind of development we’ve seen in other cities,” Seab Tuck, a principal in Tuck Hinton Architects, said in the presentation.
The roundabout was part of a second community meeting on the plan that eventually will lead to a design that is expected to go to Metro Council in the first quarter of next year.
In addition to the roundabout, the plan showed closing Seventh Avenue South and leaving open Sixth Avenue South because it flows through the southern portion of downtown.
On what is now a parking lot next to First Baptist Church, Tuck showed a park with a below-grade parking garage that perhaps would be built before the convention center to ease parking issues.
Three different hotel sites are under consideration, each with pluses and minuses.
The crowd raised a few questions — parking, trees, traffic flow. Because of the grade sloping down from the proposed roundabout, several attendees noted that the convention center would look like a one-story building at that point. Deeper into SoBro, the building would be several stories.
Real estate professionals in the group, though, after the presentation questioned the efficacy of including retail space along the back side of the center where trucks would load and unload for conventions.
The actual cost of the center still is a question privately. Even though the cost has been put at $635 million with the anchor hotel, there are many who think the cost may actually go higher.
But there’s also the question of whether it could be financed at all if the financial markets don’t improve.
“If you had to do a deal today, you couldn’t get it done,” said Richard Riebeling, Metro Finance director, who has put capital spending on hold because of the bond market.
The markets, however, could be better nine months from now, Riebeling said, adding that cities still have to build and that municipal bonds with stellar ratings will attract buyers.
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Look at what the roundabout has done in Indianapolis. I would Love to have a roundabout in Nashville. This could be a great draw for downtown, and add another element to our city. Keep up the good work architects!
Let me see, said the blind man! The cuts in school rezoning are going to be less than "anticipated" and you can bet your bottom dollar this convention center will cost us taxpayers at least 30 to 40% more in the long run! Yeah nashbeck, we NEED, need, "need" another roundabout! Just like we need metro police currently "baby sitting" the top 10 students who cause trouble, just like we need school rezoning that is going to cost more (ie, not save as much) and we need to open our city as a sanctuary city. Yep, we need it all. Yes, the architects are great! But the city is being run by spend thrifts who don't care about anything except their personal agenda and their special interest groups. With a national economy struggling, wouldn't it make sense to STOP the spending for a while and save up some money to have for emergencies and then move forward?
So does this mean we have flushed the "Plan of Nashville" with a monster building towering 100 feet over the human sized development planned for this neighborhood? Keep planning the biggest, most gradiose tourism palace you can think of. Make sure you change as many streets as possible. Be doubly aware to move as many in-place public utilites (water lines, sewer lines, gas limes, fiber, telephone, etc.). Every silk thread you throw in further will enrage a new person effected by the cost and life disruption. This project has already overgrown its humble beginnings and it has now approaching the size, shape, and oppulence of one of Sadam's massive "Presidential Palaces." How many tourism supporters on this news site have been promised a dedicated space inside of this building?BTW, there is a roundabout in Nashville. beck, just a little distance to the west. Go stare at it and watch the tourists stare in amazement at its beauty. That roundabout alone probably pulls in a billion visitors per year.
So roundabouts will make business boom? Let's put one near Greer Stadium. Between it and the wonderful Sounds who draw sooooo much business, the whole area will be rich and prosperous. (sarcasm)
the roundabout at the fairgrounds sure doesn't pull in the paying customers like it is supposed to.
As Jeff said we already have a roundabout in Nashville. And it works. That intersection could use an altered traffic pattern, we just don't need the MCC. What I would like to see at that location is a boulevard continuing over the interstate into the west side. With or without a roundabout.Of most interest is Reibling, who seems to be the only one involved in this project capable of telling the truth, saying "If you had to do a deal today, you couldn't get it done". That is a big red flag.
Wait, does Portland, OR and Charlotte, NC have round abouts and convention centers?That's all we need to know to make these decisions. Isn't the purpose of the Planning Department ot make us likethose cities?
"municipal bonds with stellar ratings will attract buyers."and thus we see the problem. Revenue Bonds do not get stellar bond ratings after the WPPS disaster (Google it). Before Metro can sell bonds with stellar bond ratings they will have to be issued as G.O. Bonds and that ladies and gentlemen is where the people of this fair city can finally kill this project. This is not a done deal, don't let the business is begining stories lead you to believe otherwise. Debt is finally a dirty word again, and $700 billion+ of it (Especially when it will benefit very, very, very few of us in the short and long run) is downright pornographic.
I think the real issue with the roundabout is the problem with that intersection, regardless of the MCC. Due to Velocity , it is unlikely Gateway will be continued over to the west side(its original purpose). You have a 6 lane(Lafayette St), connecting to a 4 lane(8th Franklin Rd) and the new Gateway termination(4 lanes and a median). It's probably the most appealing scenario, and my view an attractive important feature to this important thoroughfare. Hopefully, it will generate more activity(desperately needed) in the area. This needs to be done regardless of the MCC.The big problem, provided funding markets open back up, with the MCC is this entrenched mentality of orienting everything to the north/northeast. How do they ever expect to energize the southern portion of the city? I also have problems with the elevations and loading docks facilities, especially those accessed from Gateway and not shared with those of the Sommet. Visualize a 60 foot houseboat making the turn onto or off of Gateway from the Center - the facility to accommodate that and the use of Gateway for this. How would this impact their planned 'retail liner' on this side of the MCC.
sorry, Google WPPSS not WPPS.
Man, I feel weird and out of place. I support a center that will bring in more people to do business at BNA, downtown, and all of downtown's restaurants, hotels, and stores. This center predicted by Economists, not online posters, to not cost the taxpayers a dime, but to rather potentially bring in 700 million in revenue a year, compared to the 93 million a year the current center makes. Why do I believe this? Because our current center didn't cost us a dime. It as if you people think this center was going to be placed in the Bells Bend area, but instead of you guys being environmentalists, you want to save the vacant warehouses, surface parking lots, and crime ridden areas of downtown. What's wrong with having two roundabouts? The one at Music Row is a great aspect of Music Row, and I'd love to bring that success to downtown. Oh by the way, I'd hate for an underground parking lot to ease the parking issues of downtown to be built, wouldn't that be a shame. Not to mention, a public park with grass, tress, plants, and fountains. Roundabouts are not guaranteed to bring in development, but I'm willing to bet that developers are going to buy up those warehouses and build retail, restaurants, and residences for residents because they know that a new convention center brings in people, people with money. I will not miss you vacant, crime-ridden warehouses/surface parking lots. I will not miss you at all.
The problem with that intersection could be solved with or without a roundabout. One instant fix would be to turn the "no right turn" coming from the south on 8th into an eastbound one way encouraging right turns onto Lafayette . Squaring up the corners (or using a roundabout) at 8th and Lafayette would also help. It looks like the above plans do some of that.I never implied having two roundabouts would be bad. I like them. They work well, even in Boston where they seemingly close their eyes and floor it before entering one.nvest, I agree. Potential fubars abound for load ins, and they exist at the current center. Sadly, you are probably right about Velocity being 'in the way'.nashbeck, that area will develop with or without an MCC. Preferably without an MCC and with private money.
Goodbye vacant warehouses, hello half-empty convention center?
It appears that yet another person has fallen for the convention consultant business' never correct prediction of economic success. No convention center being built meets the predictions and in many cases they actually do worse with a larger center than they did with the smaller older one. What a shame that some people cannot look past the current predictions and see the shattered ruins of ALL the previous ones.
JeffF, I think we will agree to disagree. Time For Truth, I would LOVE for that area to develop with private money, but we have to be realistic. You can't say the economy is bad enough so we cannot build public projects, but instead let's have the private sector redevelop it.
We are up to our butt in financial alligators and this clown still wants to spend a billion dollars.
nash, the difference is we the taxpayers aren't on the hook with private money. Please don't try the '30 million in tourist tax will bring in enough to pay for a 700 million dollar convention center' angle. Most of the people here aren't buying it.The current Oympic-size swimming pool on West End Ave (private money) was preceded by another- the current Convention Center (public money). Why? Because the economy went south then too.The MCC also faces the likely future prospect of the convention business slowly drying up forever. As an investment in the future, the MCC would be like my running out and buying a Hummer H2 with today's gas prices. And making all of you pay for the gas to drive it.
I'm with nashbeck, why stop progress? idgaf, someone is not a clown just because they disagree with you.
None of us are in the convention field of business. Some of us might be event planners, but that does not qualify us as having valid opinions; otherwise, we'd be doing something other than posting on the city paper's online website. The people that are in the convention business, whose opinions do matter, would not do a project if they did not think it would succeed. I'll take their opinions, they know how to improve a city. Time For Truth, idgaf, JeffF, and myself have our opinions, but to be honest we don't know all the angles it takes to build up a city. That being said, I'll go with what the professionals are saying.
I would like to know the source of the $635 million price tag. The center itself was originally touted for around $550 million without a hotel. Then the original amount was increased by about 10%, again without a hotel. How can the entire project now be built for $635?
I would think the most qualified parties would be accountants on this baby.People in the business have been selling the smoke and mirrors for years. Look at history, not opinions.But I like the road fix.
I am not an engineer so as a person not privy to the best way to direct traffic, how does a roundabout turn a intersection into an economic success over-nite? The city or any city can not rest on where it is at the moment, but needs to look ahead. One planning commissioner warned against dreaming about the future. It is exactly what needs to be done, within reason and means. It is called planning and we may disagree about how to get there 'along the yellow brick road.' My questions from the beginning is the NEED for new revenue, even if the MCC should be financed by tourist dollars our Mayor has many projects on the board. Noone can imagine that our city can continue without new money coming into city coffers. We either plan for it or we all pay through taxes. I do believe that the MCC is a good decision and all of downtown will prosper. With the economic times we are in everyone will have to compromise.
I'm ready to get this show on the road!The roundabout idea sounds good to me.. as does burying 6th ave. Not so sure about closing off 7th, but what can ya do? We need this new convention center if we want this city to continue moving forward, IMO. The current center is old, outdated, and too small. Nashville is one of the hottest cities for tourism.. so I think this center will pay for itself in the long run! And in the meantime, the taxpayers won't even have to pay a dime.Oh, and we also need include mass transit in all of this.. as we make needed improvements to our city!