Up for Debate: Alternatives for the industrial east bank

Wednesday, November 23, 2011 at 12:46am

What are your thoughts on an alternative sports park on the east bank of the Cumberland River? What other creative possibilities could be considered for the area?

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Up for Debate

86 Comments on this post:

By: yogiman on 11/23/11 at 12:27

When did government go into the sports business?

By: Captain Nemo on 11/23/11 at 4:28

I think it would be a good thing for Nashville. For one thing it would be an improvement and two it would a recreation area closer to the heart of the city.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/23/11 at 4:32

Once again the micro brain flap his lips, but nothing flies. It asks a stupid question about a subject, without any idea as to what the question was about.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/23/11 at 4:33

From yesterday

By: yogiman on 11/22/11 at 4:32
It well after I became an "adult" before they decided the youth should be able to vote at the age of 18 because they were volunteering for the services and willing to die for our nation. Besides, that got them more votes.

You have never been an adult old fogi. As a matter a fact your wrinkled brain (and I use the word brain loosely.) is in reverse. If you ever had any knowledge, it has by now evaporated and what you call brains, is more like a petrified t*rd

By: dargent7 on 11/23/11 at 4:36

How about building the world's biggest "gay" bar?
It would show everyone how open-minded Tennessee is.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/23/11 at 5:48

A gay Santa walks into a straight bar

By: Captain Nemo on 11/23/11 at 6:07

From yesterday

By: zebrotha on 11/22/11 at 7:47
Captain Nemo...
Calamity Jane was wrong... while some people believe a small doodlewink is comparable to a lack of intelligence, that is not actually the body part used for thinking.
Lots of people, gun owners included, support politicized gun control as necessary to the defense of civilized societies. Why else would history be full of lone tyrants and a few thousand military compelling the self destructive servitude of numerically superior millions.

I don’t think she was entirely wrong. I have met plenty out there with I got to prove to others that I am a man attitude. I have said before and will continue to believe that no matter how armed are you, they will shoot at their timing and not when you expect it.

By: serr8d on 11/23/11 at 6:45

Ugggh. Nemo, your dumbth is a board-killer. Put a sock in it already.

You must admit that having a large scrap metal recycling plant right in the heart of Nashville's expanding downtown footprint is unsightly. I've hated the thing for two decades now; but they've refused to budge. The site would have to undergo near-superfund cleanup measures to become palatable to any future expansion.

From NCP, 5/29/10: http://nashvillecitypaper.com/content/city-news/state-makes-move-relocate-psc-metals-riverfront

State officials appear to be paving the way for the relocation of PSC Metals Inc., an eyesore on the east bank of the Cumberland River for decades and occupant of what is arguably Nashville’s most coveted piece of real estate.

Tucked away in a still-pending state Senate bill to change Tennessee’s tax code is an amendment that — if passed — would authorize Revenue Commissioner Reagan Farr to “allow a relocation expense credit to any scrap metal processing facility relocating from a central business district or an area adjacent to the central business district and separated only by a waterway.”

I guess that didn't happen, did it? Because that 'eyesore' and criminal attractant is still in place.

We should get serious, maybe send the OccuTards over there with tents and 'open mic' 'em: "PSC Metals, get your naasty ass out of downtown Nashville!"

By: Kosh III on 11/23/11 at 6:59

If the Sounds want a new playpen, they should pay for it themselves with their own money---no government welfare checks.

That is the free market way. Right?

By: Loner on 11/23/11 at 7:02

Good morning, Nashville!

I remember the giant scrap metal operation in Nashville...I visited Music City in 2004 and the image still resonates. To me, it was more odd than ugly.

We have scrap metal yards here too, but they off the beaten path, not downtown. Scrap metal prices are high these days and lots of chronically unemployed folks scrap, to make ends meet. It's a dirty and sometimes dangerous job, but like they say, somebody's gotta do it.

Clean up at a site like that will be expensive; they may never get all the toxins out of the ground....I'd vote to give mother nature a break and restore the land to create a green space. That piece of terra firma has paid its dues, give it a rest. Let it heal.

By: serr8d on 11/23/11 at 7:04

Oh, everybody's talking about 'pepper spray'. There's a nice piece in the New York Times today about the UC Davis cops 'watering' their hippies with it.

And, some internet wags are creating *MOCKING IMAGES!!!11!!1* of that pepper spray incident...of course, I would never mock the cops!


By: serr8d on 11/23/11 at 7:04

Loner, you ever been 'watered' with pepper spray?

Inquiring minds want to know~~!

By: yogiman on 11/23/11 at 7:29

Wait a minute there, serr8d. Didn't you know you aren't supposed to ask questions? Just answer them to this "group".

By: Loner on 11/23/11 at 7:29

Kosh, I agree with that. This "bread & circus" business is not within the legitimate purview of secular democratic governance - not in a constitutional republic like ours.

When government gets into the entertainment business, the politicians can play power consolidation games, while the masses are distracted by the public games. It's an old trick.

That is exactly what happened when the Roman Republic became so corrupt that it could barely govern. Julius Caesar, a military hero, seized power as a charismatic and popular emperor, he built the Coliseum and financed the spectacular games...the rest is history.

I do not see another Caesar waiting in the wings, ready to seize power. Things are much more subtle these days. Providing public entertainment, to garner political support and to distract the masses from more substantive and weighty issues, seems to work, even today.

Human nature has not changed much since Caesar's time; the masses are still clamoring for "Panem et Circum!" We should never forget that sometimes, the masses are asses.

By: serr8d on 11/23/11 at 7:39

Huh? Loner, the Coliseum wasn't the reason Rome foundered and fell. It was a physical problem; the lead water piping system, the one that carried all the drinking water to Rome's 1%. That lead leeched into their brains and enfeebled them all.

Now, we have the same thing going on, only our lead pipes are cables and broadcasting towers, bringing television to the ever-dumbing masses.

We have a large group of fat, dumb and happy people sitting around watching 'American Idol' and equivalent mind-numbing fare, just sitting there, drooling, watching moving two-dimensional images on a flat screen. Frank Zappa, one of my favorite entertainer-musician-poet-philosophers, had it right:


By: dargent7 on 11/23/11 at 7:47

Anyone watching the UC-Davis "Police" spraying pepper spray at college student's faces, peacefully demonstrating, and comes away with, "serves 'em right" is morally, ethically, and rationally corrupt.
That cop spraying is best suited for Terminex as head bug sprayer.
Same miscreants who think the Marines who shot a family of 10 in the back because their "commrad" got killed by a road side bomb, as justified, no doubt.

By: Loner on 11/23/11 at 7:54

To answer your question, Serr8d:

During basic training, at Ft. Polk, LA, I went through CBR* training. They put us each in a gas-filled chamber with our gas masks on, then we were ordered to remove our gas masks and yell out our name, rank and serial number before they would let us out. Guys were puking, on on all fours, noses running, tears flowing like rain...you don't forget training like that. Nasty stuff.

But no, as a civilian, I have not been pepper sprayed by the fuzz...not yet anyway...it's on my bucket list, Serr.

*Chemical, Biological, Radiological

By: BenDover on 11/23/11 at 8:05

Cool pic Serr8...

By: BenDover on 11/23/11 at 8:05

They got the Antioch Child Rapist. Kudos to the cops on that one.

By: serr8d on 11/23/11 at 8:07

Pepper spray wasn't even invented until the '80's, Loner.

Pepper spray is a derivative vegetable product (Oleoresin Capsicum), a simple harmless, temporary irritant.

M'Chelle (boo!) thinks we don't get enough vegetables; so, I propose using the stuff on all the Owwies just to make sure they get their daily veggie intakes.

Since they obviously can't afford arugula... )

By: BigPapa on 11/23/11 at 8:08

"That cop spraying is best suited for Terminex as head bug sprayer."
What do you think he was doing?

By: serr8d on 11/23/11 at 8:08

Thanks, Ben. It scored an 'A+' on Freakin' News last week.

By: Kosh III on 11/23/11 at 8:09

"It was a physical problem; the lead water piping system, the one that carried all the drinking water to Rome's 1%. That lead leeched into their brains and enfeebled them all"

Nonsense. There were numerous reasons why the western portion of the Empire failed but the Eastern portion also used lead, why did that portion of the Roman Empire continue for a thousand more years; prospering and advancing?

Michael Grant wrote on this and listed 17 feasible reasons: the largest reason was the inherent instability of the Empire in the West.

By: BenDover on 11/23/11 at 8:29

"The largest reason was the inherent instability of the Empire in the West."

I'd have to agree with that one.

By: serr8d on 11/23/11 at 8:31

For winemakers in the Roman Empire, nothing but lead would do. When boiling crushed grapes, Roman vintners insisted on using lead pots or lead-lined copper kettles. "For, in the boiling," wrote Roman winemaker Columella, "brazen vessels throw off copper rust which has a disagreeable flavor." Lead’s sweet overtones, by contrast, were thought to add complementary flavors to wine and to food as well. (reference)

The metal enhanced one-fifth of the 450 recipes in the Roman Apician Cookbook, a collection of first through fifth century recipes attributed to gastrophiles associated with Apicius, the famous Roman gourmet. From the Middle Ages on, people put lead acetate or "sugar of lead" into wine and other foods to make them sweeter. Lead touched many areas of Roman life. It made up pipes and dishes, cosmetics and coins, and paints.

Eventually, as a host of mysterious maladies became more common, some Romans began to suspect a connection between the metal and these illnesses. But the culture’s habits never changed, and some historians believe that many among the Roman aristocracy suffered from lead poisoning.
Julius Caesar, for example, managed to father only one child, even though he enjoyed women as much as he enjoyed wine. His successor, Caesar Augustus, was reported to be completely sterile. Some scholars suggest that lead could have been the culprit for the condition of both men and a contributing factor to the fall of the Roman Empire.


By: BenDover on 11/23/11 at 8:33

They still do the tear gas training thing, Loner. My son had to go through that too when he was at Ft Sill.

By: serr8d on 11/23/11 at 8:36

A form of lead intoxication known as saturnine gout takes its name from ancient Rome. Saturn was a demonic god, a gloomy and sluggish figure who ate his own children.

Reminds me: anyone seen gd lately ? )

By: Loner on 11/23/11 at 8:39

Serr8d doubts the Lone One: "Huh? Loner, the Coliseum wasn't the reason Rome foundered and fell."

I never said that the Coliseum was the reason that Rome foundered and fell. My point was that the republic collapsed, but the people elected to be governed by a benevolent, entertainment-providing dictator, as opposed to reforming the corrupted democratic republic, so long as the dictator provided free bread and free entertainment.

Rome collapsed from a variety of ailments, not because of the Coliseum, or the games.

As for the lead poisoning claim, the ruling class, the patricians, used lead for tableware...they drank wine from goblets made from lead-bearing metals. The plumbing was often of lead...the word for lead in Latin is "plumbus"...from which we get the words, "plumb" and "plumbing".

Actually, I errored on the Coliseum, Caesar hosted his games at the Circus Maximus and on the Field of Mars. The Flavian Emperor Vespasian built the Coliseum, work started in 72 AD and it was finished in 80 AD. The fall of the Roman Empire came about in the year 476 AD, or thereabouts, according to historians.

The Roman Empire continued for 400 years after the Coliseum was built...I never claimed that the Coliseum was the reason that Rome fell.

By: Kosh III on 11/23/11 at 8:41

did you mess this part?
"Some scholars suggest"

And other scholars deny that this was a significant factor at all. Grant clearly does not consider it a valid point.

Besides, if it was a serious problem for the Divine Julius, why did it take another 400 years for the Western portion to fail?

The main reasons were the structural deficiencies of the government: no clear line of succession, no plain differentiation of powers, and other failings.
Plus, the massive "barbarian" incursions, which btw were just as bad in the East but the East, despite alleged lead poisoning, did not collapse, but went on for another thousand years or so.

By: Kosh III on 11/23/11 at 8:45

476 is the year the last "Roman" emperor ruled. But this was only in the West, the Eastern Roman Empire thrived for another thousand years.

Thanks for mentioning Vespasian, he was over 100 years after Julius and his reign was the start of a long period of unprecedented peace and prosperity---so much the collapse with Julius and his lead.

BTW Julius, used women sexually for political gain, but he didn't "enjoy" them nearly as much as men. Curio the Elder once quipped that Julius was "every woman's husband and every man's wife."

By: Loner on 11/23/11 at 8:46

No, they did not use pepper spray on us during basic training, Serr, they used a type of tear (& puke) gas...can't recall the name of the stuff...I'll never forget it's effects.

By: Kosh III on 11/23/11 at 8:47

As to an alternative sports park:

If it's a multi-use facility for less common activities and is a Metro park and open to the public with no fee and no welfare for alleged capitalist businesses, then it could be a good idea but as serr pointed out, the cost of moving and cleaning up the ecological mess could be prohibitive.

By: Loner on 11/23/11 at 8:55

Julius Caesar was assassinated in the year 44 AD...Vespasian was born in 9 AD and died in 79 AD. Vespasian was a contemporary of Caesar....according to Wikipedia.

It is true that the Eastern Roman Empire endured past 476 AD, centered in Byzantium, that portion of the Empire became Orthodox Christians...the Eastern rite christian community...the Great Schism is what the Catholics call it.

By: Loner on 11/23/11 at 9:02

I've heard that said before, Kosh...that Caesar was gay...today, he'd be classified as bisexual? One thing is clear, he was a sadistic SOB...the man was no humanitarian. He was gifted, no doubt, but he had his dark side too. His idea of mercy is illustrated by the accounts of how he dealt with the pirates who had captured him and held him for ransom.

After the ransom was paid, Caesar returned to the scene of the crime and rounded up his former captors...in his mercy, he had their throats slit BEFORE they were crucified...what a nice guy...that was his way of showing mercy.

By: dargent7 on 11/23/11 at 9:10

Any idea what GPA you need out of H.S. to get admitted to University of California colleges?
Try 3.2, minimum. Better have 1,200+ on your SAT's, too.
And the cost is $25,000. a year.
So, they exercise their 1st Amendment rights, "peacefull assembly", and some Nazi cop sprays them like a Terminex employee flushing out cockroaches?
Only un-educated Republicans living in the south would condone that behavior.

By: Kosh III on 11/23/11 at 9:14


Almost right.
Julius was killed in 44 bce, not 44ad(ce) the Republic officially continued until 31 bce when Octavian took absolute power and established a Dyarchy which we commonly call the Roman Empire.

By: dargent7 on 11/23/11 at 9:14

"...my father's gay..."
George Costanza

By: Kosh III on 11/23/11 at 9:18

oops, hit the post button.
If Wikipedia lists Julius and Vespasian as contemporaries, it is wrong. Julius died 53 years before Vespasian's birth.

Julius used women sexually, a great way to blackmail a rival, but he clearly preferred men and was described by his contemporaries(mostly enemies) as being effiminate in manner and speech; the classic gay hairdresser stereotype.

By: Loner on 11/23/11 at 9:28

My bad, 44 BCE, not 44 AD.

Caesar staggers into a gay lyre bar....orders a plumb wine smoothie....in a slurred effeminate voice, he asks the bartender, "Is this 44, or 45 years Before the Christian Era?"

By: Loner on 11/23/11 at 9:33

It must have been great living in the time when the years counted down, not up from the big event....the excitement in the year 1BCE, must have been palpable...Father Time got younger every year, for some 4,000 years, after the Creation...but after the really big event, he started to age every year...let's bring back the good old days!

By: Captain Nemo on 11/23/11 at 9:44

Rome fell because of it’s Christian Leadership.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/23/11 at 9:47

I see they let pig aka serr8d boy out for his morning walk. Too bad they didn’t muzzle him.

By: brrrrk on 11/23/11 at 9:57

serr8d said

"Pepper spray is a derivative vegetable product (Oleoresin Capsicum), a simple harmless, temporary irritant."

If you're talking military grade pepper spray (which is what the UC Davis cops used), arguing that pepper spray is harmless because it is a plant derivative is like arguing that the fall out from a nuclear weapon is harmless because we're all exposed to natural radiation every day. The fact is that the level of Capsicum in the pepper spray that was used is levels of concentration higher than that of what occurs naturally in the hottest pepper known to man. Here's a suggestion serr8d, water is completely harmless..... right? Go stand at the bottom of Percy Priest Lake for an hour...should be completely harmless, right?

By: Loner on 11/23/11 at 9:57

Julius Caesar copied the sun-based Egyptian calendar idea, a 365.25 day year and discarded the problematic lunar-based Roman system...he added 3 months to the calendar in the year 46 BCE and he added the leap year idea.

Perhaps, we should measure time using the start of the new Julian calendar, which opened on 1 January 45 BCE, as the datum point, not the birth of you know who...or am I being anti-Christian once gain?

By: Loner on 11/23/11 at 10:07

As for the botanical nature of pepper spray and its uses, let me just say that in the Buffalo area, they spray that stuff on their chicken wings, to "supercharge" them...they leave aerosol cans of the stuff on the tables, alongside the salt, pepper and napkins.

As a Letter Carrier, tales of pepper-spray addicted dogs were quite common...the pooches would run up to the mailman, wagging their tales, sticking out their tongues...just begging to be sprayed in the face....it's a canine delicacy.

Serr8d is right, those filthy hippies should be thankful for the free condiments....just lick each other clean and get on with it already....no big deal....Sheeesh!

By: Captain Nemo on 11/23/11 at 10:07

The first Roman Empire had the barbarians to the north to contend with and the second has the Tea Party barbarians with.

BTW How did we get on the Roman Empire?

By: Loner on 11/23/11 at 10:12

We got there because the masses are today demanding bread & circus from their leaders...just like in the last days of the Roman republic, before the dictatorships , the empirical dynasties, began.

Sure, the analogy is a rough one, but human nature and politics have not changed so much since Caesar's day.

By: BenDover on 11/23/11 at 10:13

You are joking about the chicken wings, right loner?

By: Captain Nemo on 11/23/11 at 10:14

As long as pepper spray is not being sprayed in his face, people (and I use the word people loosely) serr8d thinks it is harmless.

This Picture Of An 84-Year Old Woman Getting Pepper Sprayed Is Getting People Outraged

By: BenDover on 11/23/11 at 10:15

Newt came out on the right side of immigration last night. Might have doomed himself in the primary.