Up for Debate: CIA cash deliveries to Karzai

Monday, April 29, 2013 at 8:36pm

How do you feel about a report that the CIA has routinely dropped off cash to the office of Afghan President Hamid Karzai? Is it a necessary way to play ball with a foreign government or does it breed corruption?

 

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Up for Debate

65 Comments on this post:

By: Libertine on 4/30/13 at 3:51

I find it interesting that the US government doesn't abide by its own laws. I is illegal for individuals or businesses to engage in foreign bribery.

The same can be said about insider trading not being illegal for members of Congress.

Or the political assassinations carried out by the Obama Administration.

By: Loner on 4/30/13 at 4:11

Good morning, Nashville....and Happy Birthday, Willie Nelson!

How do you feel about a report that the CIA has routinely dropped off cash to the office of Afghan President Hamid Karzai? Is it a necessary way to play ball with a foreign government or does it breed corruption?

The US has been purchasing loyalty for many decades all across the globe....Egypt receives about a billion and a half every year from the US Treasury....as an entitlement....for not messing with our little buddy in the region: the apartheid, nuclear-scofflaw, Jewish state in Palestine....Jordan gets over 850 million every year from Uncle Sam for the same reason...it's a bribe to protect the apartheid Jewish state.

Israel, receives over 3 billion every year, as an entitlement, from the State Dept. budget and many millions more through the Defense Dept. budget ...plus the loan guarantees that turn out to be outright gifts from the US taxpayers.

In 2011, Afghanistan received over $12.9 billion from the US Treasury in declared aid and millions more in clandestine aid.and Iraq scored 2.147 billion in that year too. My source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_foreign_aid

Those who thought that Mr. Obama would usher in a new age of hope and change were bitterly disappointed...it's the same old dirty business, as usual.

Of course, the US spent many billions in South East Asia in the 60's and 70's....money down another rat-hole.....again, to purchase loyalty.

Since the Congress and the White House are completely on the take to special interests, our lawmakers do not see any ethical or operational problems with bribery....money is the mother's milk of US politics....and with Citizens United now in play, the corruption will become deeper and more widespread.

The trouble with purchased loyalty is that once the cash payments end, so does the "loyalty".

By: Loner on 4/30/13 at 4:28

They don't call them "political assassinations" anymore, Libertine....the clever and articulate Israelis have coined new terms to describe their favorite tool of statecraft...the new terms are: "targeted killings" and "extrajudicial killings".

Israeli paramilitary units assassinated the UN's first peace envoy, Count Bernadotte, in September, 1948. Yitzhak Shamir masterminded that plot...he went on to become Israeli Prime Minister.

The Israelis have killed many opposition leaders since then.

Today, the Mossad is busy killing Iranian scientists....and Palestinian Arab leaders....and anyone else who would stand in their way.

BHO has signed off on the dozens of drone strikes that have assassinated many Jihadist leaders. Hope & Change my @ss!

There is plenty of blood on our hands.....and for every leader we snuff, several more seem to appear....like a deadly Whack-A-Mole game.....and we taxpayers are feeding the machine.

By: Loner on 4/30/13 at 4:47

Lib wrote: "I find it interesting that the US government doesn't abide by its own laws. It is illegal for individuals or businesses to engage in foreign bribery."

But, as a result of the Citizens United decision, it is NOT illegal for foreign interests to bribe US lawmakers...Sheldon Adelson, for example, pumped over 20 million dollars into the US Presidential contest in 2012....Adelson's wife and kids are all Israeli citizens and he owns a right-wing Israeli newspaper...here's Shelly:

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/01/27/10249298-gingrich-funder-isnt-trying-to-buy-the-presidency-aide-says?lite

By: Ask01 on 4/30/13 at 5:07

Nations buy "friendship" from countries and leaders all the time. What do you think "foreign aid" actually means?

When we need access to their land or air space, or just for them to look the other way, often the aid has ulterior motives.

As odious as the practice may be, the cost is less than fighting a war to achieve the same end.

The practice is as old as time itself and, no matter what euphemism is used in the future, such necessities will continue to realize national aims.

So, what's the problem?

By: Captain Nemo on 4/30/13 at 5:40

I think it would be more cost efficient if they paid him not to be the leader.

By: Captain Nemo on 4/30/13 at 5:45

Loner says, “The US has been purchasing loyalty for many decades all across the globe....Egypt receives about a billion and a half every year from the US Treasury....as an entitlement....for not messing with our little buddy in the region: the apartheid, nuclear-scofflaw, Jewish state in Palestine....Jordan gets over 850 million every year from Uncle Sam for the same reason...it's a bribe to protect the apartheid Jewish state.”

Rome did the same thing.

By: Loner on 4/30/13 at 5:52

Excellent comment, Captain....i certainly agree.

Ask01 asked, "So, what's the problem?"

Again, the trouble with purchased loyalty is that once the cash payments end, so does the "loyalty".

Foreign leaders often skim the aid, taking their "cut" and the contracts are awarded to their cronies.

Another problem is that when the bribed regime is overthrown, the rebels remember who financed their former oppressors and they take revenge.

An additional problem for Uncle Sam is that he has to borrow the money to pay the bribes.

Those are just some of the "problems" that I see with military and economic foreign aid.

By: Rasputin72 on 4/30/13 at 5:53

The dollar or any currency in vogue is a all powerful aphrodisiac.

By: Loner on 4/30/13 at 5:56

Captain, I agreed with your 6:40 comment, not your 6:45.

No, Rome did not do the same thing...the Romans demanded and received tribute from the conquered peoples...treasure flowed into Rome, not the other way around...we do empire backwards...treasure flows from the conqueror to the conquered....this cannot last.

By: Loner on 4/30/13 at 6:01

When the Roman empire was coming apart at the seams...in the fourth and fifth centuries, the emperors and the popes bribed the vandals...the barbarians...to keep them out of Rome, in the West and Byzantium, in the East....the tactic sometimes worked....but eventually the scheme failed and Rome was sacked.....Byzantium fell later.

We could learn something from that...but, I doubt that we will.

By: Loner on 4/30/13 at 6:05

By: Rasputin72 on 4/30/13 at 6:53

The dollar or any currency in vogue is a all powerful aphrodisiac.

That's exactly what Rush Limbaugh says....the drug-addled, cigar-smoking, misogynist has all the chicks he can stand....that sort of love can be purchased.

By: Loner on 4/30/13 at 6:11

I thought that we were spreading democracy and freedom at swordpoint in Afghanistan....this Karzai clown has been in power for nine friggin' years, with no end in sight....a pompous and smooth puppet, propped up by the US government....the ordinary Afghanis are not stupid; they see the corruption, they are biding their time....once the US military leaves....Karzai's ass will be grass....if he's not snuffed sooner than that.

By: Captain Nemo on 4/30/13 at 6:13

LOL Loner. Rapsy does seem to follow Rush's lead.

By: Captain Nemo on 4/30/13 at 6:18

Karzai is only a paper king, prop up by U.S. money.

Rasputin is a paper king prop up by a cloak of internet fraud.

By: Loner on 4/30/13 at 6:19

Source:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Millions_for_defense._But_not_one_cent_for_tribute._This_was_the_American_reaction_to_whom

Snippet:
In 1797, France was run by a group of 5 men known as The Directory. The American reaction was in response to a demand that the United States would have to pay the five members of The Directory $50,000 each and pay tribute to France in the form of a $10,000,000 loan. The French were mad about a treaty we made with England and they wanted the bribe to stop their attacks on our shipping.

American delegate Charles Pinckney actually responded, "No, no, not a sixpence, sir!" The quote, "Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute," was actually made by Robert Goodloe Harper as a toast at a dinner shortly after the American delegation returned home. The next day a newspaper printed the toast from the night before and soon people began using it as a rallying cry. (end snippet)

As we can see, things have changed, haven't they?

By: Loner on 4/30/13 at 6:29

All foreign aid comes with strings attached...with the possible exception of humanitarian aid...some call this bribery...some say, tit for tat....others say it's simply, quid pro quo....it's fee for service known by many euphemisms....in the real world, human nature being what it is, it's probably here to stay....it may be unsavory, but it could be an essential factor in the advancement of human civilization....a "necessary evil"?

By: Captain Nemo on 4/30/13 at 6:30

A Rose by any other name is still a Rose.

By: Loner on 4/30/13 at 6:37

The bard of Avon....Shakespeare also wrote, "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."....Hamlet was right...and the rot has spread.

By: budlight on 4/30/13 at 7:09

This topic is way above my pay grade. Glad to see you all are intellectulizing today. Have a great day.

By: Jughead on 4/30/13 at 7:17

Balls.

By: Captain Nemo on 4/30/13 at 7:18

Most everything is above that, bud.

By: Jughead on 4/30/13 at 7:18

Nimrod is a pile of vomit spewed from the bungie of AlGore.

By: Jughead on 4/30/13 at 7:19

Nimord: Query---why did you capitalize "Rose" twice in your previous post?

By: Jughead on 4/30/13 at 7:21

Loner just visited wiki to get a Shakespeare quote. He's really impressed me with that one....not.

Loner+Nimrod=LOSERS.

By: bfra on 4/30/13 at 7:23

Bungie, Inc., (stylized in its corporate logo as " BUNGiE") is an American video game developer currently located in Bellevue, Washington, U.S..
=======================================

Jug - When did Al Gore invent a video game? That's news!

By: Rasputin72 on 4/30/13 at 7:34

Rot by another name is a rose. Were it not for rot the shut ins, welfare reipients,underclass and postal retirees would live in their own hovel.

Rot has been entrenched with currency since the fabled Adam and Eve.

There are a number of people on this web-site that intellectually are incapable or unwilling
to recognize their salvation.

A sociology professor once told me that it is human nature that if one stands in s--t for an extended period of time that he or she will find the situation not too bad.

What we have here are a majority class of posters with the same credentials but who watch television as an intellectual pursuit.

By: bfra on 4/30/13 at 7:42

Raspy - What we have here are a majority class of posters with the same credentials but who watch television as an intellectual pursuit.
==============================================

Anything would be a more intellectual pursuit than reading the rot you put on this board. You better rush, bargains at the Goodwill probably go early, but you should know that.

By: Captain Nemo on 4/30/13 at 7:52

The silly monk's anger has been provoked, with the truth of his deceptions.

Raspy old boy you might be able to fool the other trolls on this site, but I know your true nature. You were a con forty years ago and you still are. However you skills to swindle has never improved in all of that time hence you are the same.

The only tool you have now is the internet, to spread you mischief. But to what gain? For your self image is hardy a goal, unless it is your only resources to boost a less than staler live.

By: BenDover on 4/30/13 at 7:57

How do I feel about it?

Not as bad as I do about the Benghazi murders that were a result of a coverup and covert plot to give the Syrian rebels (a.k.a. al Qaeda) weapons so that they could get control of the WMD stock-piles that Saddam smuggled out of Iraq in early 2003.

Sending fighter jets to the Muslim Brotherhood (a.k.a. Crazy Towelheads) in Egypt is probably a lot worse as well.

By: Rasputin72 on 4/30/13 at 7:58

NEMO.............You remain the epitomy of the people whom I have pointed out.

By: Captain Nemo on 4/30/13 at 8:01

Raspy old boy, I think the word you were trying to say is “Epitome.”

By: bfra on 4/30/13 at 8:15

Raspy, you have never truthfully pointed anything out! You know nothing about the people you try to describe. Everything you post is a farce!

I was in Palm Beach last wk. for a beautiful wedding. Didn't see anyone in the group with their nose high enough in the air to make me think it might have been you. But then it was a group, IMO, above your standards.

By: Captain Nemo on 4/30/13 at 8:18

The silly troll monk keeps talking about me as if he knows to whom I am. Unfortunately he has no clue my identity, only who he wishes me to be. He thinks I am a welfare child, like he was growing up. His youthful days of were spent conning; taking the easy way out and the money of others and never learning how to be human.

By: Captain Nemo on 4/30/13 at 8:21

I think he was here in Nashville, bfra.

By: Captain Nemo on 4/30/13 at 8:22

I need to go, but I will be checking in from time to time.

By: bfra on 4/30/13 at 8:23

Nemo - IMO and according to his comments, he never leaves Nashville. He sure doesn't know a lot about Palm Beach.

By: Captain Nemo on 4/30/13 at 8:26

He has never been able to keep his lie straight. LOL

By: Loner on 4/30/13 at 8:41

By: BenDover on 4/30/13 at 8:57

How do I feel about it?

Not as bad as I do about the Benghazi murders that were a result of a coverup and covert plot to give the Syrian rebels (a.k.a. al Qaeda) weapons so that they could get control of the WMD stock-piles that Saddam smuggled out of Iraq in early 2003.

Sending fighter jets to the Muslim Brotherhood (a.k.a. Crazy Towelheads) in Egypt is probably a lot worse as well.

Ben has joined the tin-foil-hat crowd....that is one helluva convoluted conspiracy theory..

Blame the War Super Lobby, Ben for the military hardware sales to all those "towelheads" in the region...you know, the influence peddling folks who dictate policy to the Congress and White House...the paymasters of both Republican and Democratic lawmakers.

By: BenDover on 4/30/13 at 8:49

http://townhall.com/columnists/katiekieffer/2013/04/29/benghazigate-obamas-secret-gunrunning-program-n1580051

By: BenDover on 4/30/13 at 8:52

http://rt.com/usa/obama-fighter-jets-egypt-856/

By: BenDover on 4/30/13 at 8:52

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/04/11/syria-al-qaeda-connection/2075323/

By: BenDover on 4/30/13 at 8:56

My contempt is notably for the crazy towel-heads loner... the peaceful towel heads are fine as long as they keep their misogynistic homophobic theocratic culture to themselves in their own countries.

By: BenDover on 4/30/13 at 9:06

I imagine you are typing right now about our own Theocracy, loner but I would argue the opposite is true. We have pretty well stomped Christianity out of public life in Western Civilization and the absence of a socially consistent religion has created a moral vacuum now being filled with moral relativism and radical inconsistent ideologies like Islam.

Yes, some fundamental ideologies are better than others.

By: dargent7 on 4/30/13 at 9:29

The US Government is nothing more than la Costra Nostra' in sheeps clothing.
We tried to kill Castro for the past 60 years.
We had Saddam Hussein HUNG in less than 1 year after his faux "trial".
Noreiga, Shaw of Iran, Poll Pot, Kim Jung Il, the list is endless of who we want in power (puppets) or who we want killed to install our own puppet regiem.
The USA's karma is bad, and getting worse.
Anyone think in 2013, everyone on the planet, all the major players...China, Russia, Japan...don't know us for who we are and what we want?
Bush & Cheney proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, we want their (everybody's) OIL and their land too. And we'll make up sh!t to get it. Including invading sovereign countries.
And the right wing Repubs concern themselves only whether Obama is a Muslim.

By: BenDover on 4/30/13 at 9:37

I don't care what Obama is and made no mention of it D'arge.

By: BenDover on 4/30/13 at 9:45

If I had to guess I'd say he buys into radical Black Liberation Theology (as taught to him by a mentor, Rev. Wright, for 20 years) as an extension of his early Marxist influences.

By: Loner on 4/30/13 at 10:24

Ben, help me with this....please....let's see if I got this right.

So, according to the narrative you are trotting out, Barack Hussein Obama, the foreign-born usurper POTUS, is actually a secret agent in some international plot to make the USA into another Islamic caliphate? And Rev. Wright, his mentor, is in on the plot....Hillary, John Kerry and the entire State Dept too....all conspiring to betray the USA....and the attacks in Benghazi were all part of an Obama scheme to get Saddam's chemical WMD into the hands of Al Qaeda....have I got all the elements of the plot?

You are alleging that President Obama is a traitor...worse than Benedict Arnold or Jonathan Pollard...worse than Jeff Davis....is that your allegation, Ben?

By: yogiman on 4/30/13 at 10:24

What the professor didn't tell you, Rasputin72, is after a little while, you'll get used to the odor and it won't stink.

Don't believe me? Just ask the BSers on this site.

By: BenDover on 4/30/13 at 10:36

I didn't say that at all Loner. I linked to articles that illustrate that some of Obama's policies in the middle east are naive at best and are disastrously dangerous to Western Civilization.

I think it stems from him holding the fundamental value that tolerance is the primary virtue in life and he sees some faux moral equivalency to these guys like they are some kind of freedom fighters or something.

I don't know but the evidence of failure is hearty. When they get their hands on the nukes it's gonna be ugly.