Up for Debate: Dean wants former JCPenney space

Sunday, November 6, 2011 at 11:59pm

How do you feet about Mayor Karl Dean's plan to add more library space, a community center and green space to southeastern Davidson County by purchasing the former JCPenney space at Hickory Hollow mall?

71 Comments on this post:

By: dargent7 on 11/7/11 at 4:36

The more libraries, the better.
But, he better plan on having dozens of computers because everyone using the library does so for the Internet access.
Hardly anyone is ever reading a book.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/7/11 at 5:55

Libraries are good.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/7/11 at 5:57

Deep within his parent’s basement, serr8d seats at a control board and pushes a button and yogi post……

By: yogiman on 11/4/11 at 4:20
The majority of the laws being passed today, especially at the national level, is just one more step to government control to rule the people.

By: Loner on 11/7/11 at 6:20

Good morning, Nashville!

I visited Nashville in 2004, and visited a huge, fancy library when in town....I believe a cappuccino bar was nearby...it was very nice. Can't remember the name of the place, however.

Yes, Music City could use more of that stuff, IMO....as long as the price of the building is reasonable....and a genuine need exists.

By: govskeptic on 11/7/11 at 6:24

There's an existing and not very old existing library about 1/2 to 3/4 of
a mile east of that location. A few libraries in this city don't even need
books just "free" use of computers and Internet access to keep in touch
with family and friends in other countries!

Admittedly Hickory Hollow will not make a come back for shopping!
The Mayor gave us a large part of his agenda before the election and
Hickory Hollow action was a small part of it. Without any real competition
in the race, the agenda will now run Full Speed Ahead!

By: dargent7 on 11/7/11 at 6:57

Books, and reading books, has become antiquated.
Everyone now gets their info on the Internet and "google" (filthy rich bastards).
Name any family you know who bought The World Book encyclopedia last?
I used to sell that door-to-door in 1990.
Even then, no one was home.
Besides Presidential Libraries and on college campus's, I really see no future in them.

By: Loner on 11/7/11 at 7:21

Thanks Gov, for the kind word on Friday, you compared Mike Burch's rants with mine...that's a compliment to me and I am flattered.

Darge, after the Battle of Armageddon, the survivors will need hard copies...the power is gonna be off for a very long time....and they won't be making any new batteries...the Second Dark Age may be right around the corner.

I agree with Ron Paul, war with Iran is on the horizon. I posted a comment here:


On another thread in the State Column, I left a comment on Haley Barbour's support for Mississippi's new "Personhood" amendment....it's on the ballot for tomorrow. Here's the URL:


If this board craps out, those are good alternatives, IMO.

By: Kosh III on 11/7/11 at 7:31

Plenty of people still check out and read books. Just stop at the main library and watch how many books are processed.
Many many things are not electronic and may never be in the near future. Reference works, rare and unusual documents, out of print novels and non-fiction and much more.

As to HH, my only comment is that the "green space" of 2.6 acres is woefully inadequate. A priority should be to finish connecting the two segments of the Mill Creek Greenway and then extend it a short distance down to the mall.

By: Loner on 11/7/11 at 7:35

Oh yeah, an aircraft carrier sized rock will be zipping by our planet sometime Tuesday...it will be closer to Earth than the moon normally is....if that baby hits the moon, or Earth, all of our present troubles will seem quite trivial.

If scientists knew that it was going to hit us, would they tell us? Hang on to your books and hide out in a bank vault for the day?...take yer grab-n-go bag?...if that rock hits mother earth, she may not be able to take a hit like she used to....with 700 billion hominids infesting the planet, odds are, a few would survive...for a while anyway.

I think that I may pack a small bottle of Jack Daniels and a pack of cigarettes with me, tomorrow...just in case I see that rock coming through the atmosphere....might as well light up (after 31 years of no tobacco) and take a slug of Jack before the shit hits the fan.

Anybody else have a plan of action?

By: dargent7 on 11/7/11 at 7:37

"...plenty of people check out and read books..."
Really? In Tennessee?
Like I asked before, name ONE family who has World Book Encyclopedia in their home.
Musch less on the shelf and the kids reference it 3x a week for a school assignment. Name ONE.
If they own a set, it's in boxes in the attic.
Name the last book you read.
And if anyone says, GW Bush's, Condi Rice's, Rumsfeld's, or specifically, Dick Cheney's manifesto, I'll turn OFF my computer.

By: serr8d on 11/7/11 at 7:37

Antioch doesn't need another library; Antioch needs more jail cells, because the neighborhood has gone to pot (and to south-of-the-border ethnic foodstuffs) in recent years.

There's enough space in that old JCP to add 200 or more quality jail cells; with doublestack bunks, 400 crooks and liars and politicians (but I repeat myself) could be housed there. Next to deadbeat dads and DUI headcases, and the occasional smoke-and-horn blower...

Why not give the community what it needs?

If you're so desirous of seeing Antioch people read books, FailMayor Dean, give 'em all Kindles and options to download books 'on loan' from a virtual library. You wouldn't need a JCP-sized building for that; just a few servers housed in a small closet right next to the new JCP Jail.

By: dargent7 on 11/7/11 at 7:42

I heard the metero will pass between the Moon and Earth.
The Moon's 240,000 miles away, so carry the one, half way. Not to worry.
If Gingrich, Perry, Cain, or Bachmann get the keys to the W.H., start worrying.

By: serr8d on 11/7/11 at 7:45

Oh, the latest on the Occu'tards, from the New York Post...

The Zuccotti “cops” had just spent an hour and a half tracking Bezabeh through goat paths in the park armed with a description from the manager.

“We cannot take him in by ourselves, the cops have to come!” reiterates the OWS security force member.

They call the NYPD -- and it becomes abundantly clear that the cops down there are sick of the antics.

“Every single night it’s the same thing. I mean, some guy was a victim of rape!” an officer snarls. “There comes a time when it’s over. This is a disaster. It’s all we’re doing, every two seconds, is locking somebody up every time. It’s done.

“It’s done,” he repeats. “Occupy Wall Street is no longer a protest.”

Scenes like this -- and far worse -- have been playing out since the Zuccotti Park “occupation” began on Sept. 17.

The parcel is now a sliver of madness, rife with sex attacks, robberies and vigilante justice.

It’s a leaderless bazaar that’s been divided into state-like camps -- with tents packed together so densely that the only way to add more would be to stack them.

And despite an NYPD watchtower overhead and the entire north side of Zuccotti lined with police vehicles, it is quickly becoming one of the most dangerous places in New York City.

'Bezabeth' was the Owwie who went to a McDonald's at 3:00 AM, and because they wouldn't give him free foodstuffs, he yanked the credit card machine off the counter and heaved it at the workers.


By: serr8d on 11/7/11 at 7:52

Finally! A GIANT PAPER-MACHE HEAD makes an appearance!

A staple of leftward-leaning protests; these things floated above anti-war protests (remember those?) during the Bush years. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, all were granted GIANT PAPER-MACHE HEADs for parading in the streets.

They became an expected staple of these leftard's protests. I've missed seeing them, really.

Now, care of the Owwies in NYC, they'res BACK!


This tells me the Occupy Wall Street - Zuccotti Park edition is now on 'Death Watch'. First the reports of increasing crimes, then the GIANT PAPER-MACHE OBAMA HEAD; it'll be too much for Dear Leader to stand. He'll give a signal to Mayor Bloomberg, who will bring the bulldozers.

But you'll have to admit, that GIANT PAPER-MACHE OBAMA HEAD is a work of ART~!

By: Loner on 11/7/11 at 7:56

Darge, in a sense, our trust in science is faith-based...we trust those guys with the advanced degrees in astrophysics and astronomy-related science to tell us what they know and for them to be honest when they do not know. Sadly corporate, religious and political sponsorship of science has perverted the whole thing, to a certain degree.

Hopefully, the rock will pass by harmlessly, but I would imagine that with each close encounter with earth, the trajectory gets a little more dangerous...that rock will be back...and it may be closer next time around....I'm no astrophysicist, but that's my "theory".

We can put Serr8d in that new jail he envisions....the charge: Sedition.

From Wikipdia:

"In law, sedition is overt conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority to tend toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Seditious words in writing are seditious libel. A seditionist is one who engages in or promotes the interests of sedition."

By: dargent7 on 11/7/11 at 7:57

You Right-tard's can make fun of Obama all you want. Gingrich even said he was, "worse than Bernie Madoff".
This, coming from a fat, bloated slob and 3x loser on his 3rd wife.
The other shuck, Cain, refuses to take reporter's questions on the 3 women coming forward. Maybe you Repubs can only count to 3?
Hope they team up.
Then, Obama can walk backwards into a 2nd term.

By: dargent7 on 11/7/11 at 8:01

L'ner: I put my faith and trust in God. Then the Hare Krishnas who say we never went to the Moon.
The whole thing was filmed on a back lot in Hollywood.
Bet it's true.
Every day I wake up and cannot believe GW Bush was elected President.
....and his brother may run....making 3 Bush's in the W.H.
Watching the Marx Brothers or The Three Stooges makes more sense.

By: serr8d on 11/7/11 at 8:14

Then, Obama can walk backwards into a 2nd term.

Personally, I'd like to see him running backwards through a cornfield, naked.

(That's a description of Friday night light's out in Cellblock 17; when new inmates get to meet up with Jamal and Bruno. Usually, though, the types of criminals on Cellblock 17 are the lifers and the gangsters; and now the Anonymous PC geeks who finally come to realize that cyber-crime does NOT pay; that virus-jacking PCs then utilizing them in DOS attacks on legitimate businesses is felonious activity. Oh, as is hacking into Sarah Palin's email account, David Kernell-style. He's now in the Kentucky State Penitentiary. In Cellblock 17.)

By: serr8d on 11/7/11 at 8:16

We never went to the moon, huh?

Well, tomorrow, maybe the moon can come to us.

By: Loner on 11/7/11 at 8:21

Nice pic, Serr...that's more than a head, that's an entire puppet...notice the actuating rods manipulated by the protesters....very clever!

This means that these guys are light years ahead of the old Vietnam Hippie archetype. That is a good thing, IMO. The kids are keeping the faith.

Of course, the effigy puppet has a racist twinge to it...and it must have taken lots of organization and some cash to design and build that thing and then all those trained operators to carry and manipulate the giant puppet...sounds like the Koch Brothers may have financed it...agents provocateur are operating it?

There should be one of those giant puppets depicting Mayor Bloomberg, the Wall Street Tycoon Mayor of what he called "the world's largest Jewish city"...Bloomie took out huge ads in the Jerusalem Post featuring those words when he ran for a third term. Gentiles in NYC are 2nd class citizens...the equivalent of Arab Israelis?

Bibi would have sent in the IDF by now, Bloomberg is acting wishy-washy...he's in a tough spot on this one. He's Mister Nanny state liberal...he can't just send in the uniformed enforcers to roust peaceful protesters...agents provocateur, however is another option open to the Wall Street fat cat....I expect that Bloomie has several agents in the camped-out crowd.

How many cops are moonlighting as "protesters"?

I'll be manning a sign myself today... in Albion, NY, the Orleans County seat of power...same sign: HOLY WARS SUCK....it may rain again....members of my UU church are doing the protesting...all old guard....gray power.

We may have to rip-off that puppet idea...thanks for the tip, Serr.

By: yogiman on 11/7/11 at 8:22

Yeah, Loner. My plan is to run like hell. Maybe I can run up a hill and jump on up to the moon. I sure as hell don't want to land on the sun.

By: dargent7 on 11/7/11 at 8:26

Sir8: Actually, going to the Moon is on the same wavelength as the Kennedy assassination (lone assassin, Oswald). Three perfect rifle shots in 8 seconds from a bolt action?
The US gov't is very capable in covering and makings things up.
For an eye opener, look at any of the numerous conspiracy theories concerning 9/11.
A close-up of the United Airlines jet hiting the Twin Towers ain't no UA plane I've ever taken. It's light green with blacked out windows.
And the "footprint" at the Pentagon from a 757 is way too small.
Just sayin'.

By: serr8d on 11/7/11 at 8:27

Oh, here's some handy tips to Lefties who don't want their children to grow up believing in God (what a nightmare for a good Proggie Democrat that would be!)...

Make sure they never learn that many brilliant men and women throughout history and even today — scientists, philosophers, artists and others — were and are religious believers. Children must accept that religion is only something for dupes and fools, and that no intelligent person could ever believe in God.

Lie to them constantly about the way the world works. Teach them to think that science and its methods are the only valid ways of knowing anything. If it can’t be measured empirically, it cannot exist.

Make them loathe their own soul and its functions. Convince them to mistrust and despise any intimations they have about its existence. Teach them to believe that they are proud and strong and entirely self-sufficient, and that to intuit and wonder that there is some power or reality greater than themselves at work in the universe is an occasion of shame and disgrace that must be rejected, never explored or admitted into serious consideration.

Ensure that they resent and despise anyone who believes in God. Make such people out to be evil and vile and their religious belief the source of all the world’s ills. Teach children that religion poisons everything. Help them to see people like themselves as the enlightened people in society, and to look down on the religious majority as therefore dim.

Teach them to laugh at and dismiss out of hand any belief system but their own. Early —early mind you — make sure they are taught that there are no important differences between religions or within religious traditions. They must come to believe that apparent differences are only illusory, that in fact, all religions teach and practice nothing but superstitious deadly error. There is no real difference between Mother Teresa and Torquemada, between Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Jimmy Swaggart, between Averroes and Osama bin Laden, between Maimonides and Baruch Goldstein.

Instruct them with all severity and import to never question for themselves — to never think for themselves — to never live for themselves — but to seek answers only in one — just one — particular set of Industrial Age folk tales.

Above all — and this cannot be overemphasized — make sure they believe that to possess technical mastery of language, mathematics, and other symbolic systems is the same thing as possessing wisdom.

That should do the trick.


By: yogiman on 11/7/11 at 8:29

Re your 7:37 question as to what family has, I don't have the World Book Encyclopedia, I have the Encyclopedia Americana. I wasn't too interested in what was going on in the rest of the world when I bought that edition. Wanna buy 'um? Only ten bucks a book? I'll even though in the cabinet.

By: Loner on 11/7/11 at 8:29

Serr8d seems to have an obsession with jailhouse-style, homosexual, anal sex...anybody else notice that?

By: dargent7 on 11/7/11 at 8:34

Besides him being a closet gay, no.

By: serr8d on 11/7/11 at 8:50

BOSTON (CBS) – Three people arrested Thursday night inside the Occupy Boston camp have been charged with dealing crack cocaine.

WBZ NewsRadio 1030’s Carl Stevens, who spent the night at the camp a few weeks ago, talked to a man who spends most nights at Occupy Boston. He said things have gone downhill.

“Things have changed drastically. It seems to be deteriorating,” the man told Carl. “A lot of drug use, alcohol use, people getting into fights… It’s deteriorating pretty quick.”


Just like the TEA Party. Right?

By: serr8d on 11/7/11 at 8:57

Serr8d seems to have an obsession with jailhouse-style, homosexual, anal sex...anybody else notice that?

That's the best deterrent our prison system has left anymore.

Remember the line Warden Norton spoke to Andy Dufresne in The Shawshank Redemption?

Nothing stops. Nothing... or you will do the hardest time there is. No more protection from the guards. I'll pull you out of that one-bunk Hilton and cast you down with the Sodomites. You'll think you've been ****ed by a train! And the library? Gone... sealed off, brick-by-brick. We'll have us a little book barbecue in the yard. They'll see the flames for miles. We'll dance around it like wild Injuns! You understand me? Catching my drift?... Or am I being obtuse?

Now that's how to scare these almost-criminals straight.

Anonymous: "We are Anonymous. We are legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us."

To which I reply: "There's a train waiting just for you!"

By: pswindle on 11/7/11 at 9:49

Dean is determined to give his friend money for Hickory Hollow. Why! After the Fair deal fell though, Dean is trying to get creative.

By: jvh2b on 11/7/11 at 9:49

Ya know Loner--- you make an excellent point.

I'd be willing to bet Serr is one of those that caused them to put in camera in some of the parks here...ya know since the out gays actually go to their place to do things ... while the self loathing gays can't bring their trysts home...so they gotta do it at the park....

By: Loner on 11/7/11 at 10:05

Yeah, jvh, we have the same problem with our parks. It's time to take back the parks! Occupy the parks!

A couple of years back, I was playing a Peruvian flute in a local park..it's a sprawling affair...old farms strung together....all of a sudden three cop cars pulled up...blocking my vehicle from escape....I asked, "What's going on?". The lead cop asked, "What are you doing here?" I responded with, "Playing a flute." He then asked, "Are you sure that you weren't playing it in the nude?" I laughed and said that I was pretty sure that I had not been playing my flute in the nude....they then fanned out and went into the woods...looking for a "nude male" that some passerby had noticed, while driving through the park.

When I tell that true story at a clothing-optional campground, we all get a good laugh out of it.

By: Loner on 11/7/11 at 10:08

"Hickory Hollow"? Let me guess, they chainsawed all the hickories and then filled in the hollow...then they built Hickory Hollow on the site, right?

By: Loner on 11/7/11 at 10:10

"Scared straight", Serr8d? What do you mean by that?

By: brrrrk on 11/7/11 at 10:12

serr8d said

"Antioch doesn't need another library; Antioch needs more jail cells, because the neighborhood has gone to pot (and to south-of-the-border ethnic foodstuffs) in recent years."

Just when you wonder where serr8d stands, he clears it up. So how much are you going to make today from posting?

By: brrrrk on 11/7/11 at 10:17

serr8d said

"Then, Obama can walk backwards into a 2nd term.

Personally, I'd like to see him running backwards through a cornfield, naked."

Loner, I suspect that your suspicions regarding serr8d could be well founded.

To paraphrase the Bard, "The dude doth protest too much, methinks."

By: Loner on 11/7/11 at 10:18

Brrrrk, do you think that Serr8d's writing is at the level of "professional troll"?

Cross-dressing trollop perhaps, but not a professional troll, IMO.

By: Loner on 11/7/11 at 10:19

My crystal balls just started to glow...hang on....

By: BenDover on 11/7/11 at 10:34

Yikes... like the Mayan skulls, Loner?

By: brrrrk on 11/7/11 at 10:35

Thirteen Observations made by Lemony Snicket while watching Occupy Wall Street from a Discreet Distance

1. If you work hard, and become successful, it does not necessarily mean you are successful because you worked hard, just as if you are tall with long hair it doesn’t mean you would be a midget if you were bald.

2. “Fortune” is a word for having a lot of money and for having a lot of luck, but that does not mean the word has two definitions.

3. Money is like a child—rarely unaccompanied. When it disappears, look to those who were supposed to be keeping an eye on it while you were at the grocery store. You might also look for someone who has a lot of extra children sitting around, with long, suspicious explanations for how they got there.

4. People who say money doesn’t matter are like people who say cake doesn’t matter—it’s probably because they’ve already had a few slices.

5. There may not be a reason to share your cake. It is, after all, yours. You probably baked it yourself, in an oven of your own construction with ingredients you harvested yourself. It may be possible to keep your entire cake while explaining to any nearby hungry people just how reasonable you are.

6. Nobody wants to fall into a safety net, because it means the structure in which they’ve been living is in a state of collapse and they have no choice but to tumble downwards. However, it beats the alternative.

7. Someone feeling wronged is like someone feeling thirsty. Don’t tell them they aren’t. Sit with them and have a drink.

8. Don’t ask yourself if something is fair. Ask someone else—a stranger in the street, for example.

9. People gathering in the streets feeling wronged tend to be loud, as it is difficult to make oneself heard on the other side of an impressive edifice.

10. It is not always the job of people shouting outside impressive buildings to solve problems. It is often the job of the people inside, who have paper, pens, desks, and an impressive view.

11. Historically, a story about people inside impressive buildings ignoring or even taunting people standing outside shouting at them turns out to be a story with an unhappy ending.

12. If you have a large crowd shouting outside your building, there might not be room for a safety net if you’re the one tumbling down when it collapses.

13. 99 percent is a very large percentage. For instance, easily 99 percent of people want a roof over their heads, food on their tables, and the occasional slice of cake for dessert. Surely an arrangement can be made with that niggling 1 percent who disagree.

By: dargent7 on 11/7/11 at 10:40

Here's how Republicans (southern style) view life: re: the Occupy movement..."Three were arrested for dealing cocaine..." In other related news, "Two were arrested defecating on a Police car..." "Some engaged in prostitution and deviant sex..."" Some even had unprotected sex..."
So, you've got 5-10, maybe 20 idiots in a National demonstration.
Contrast that with Palin, who wants to "spank" Russia with a couple of bombs thrown their way, and along with Bachmann, Perry, Cain, who wants to overturn Roe v. Wade, and make abortion illegal NATIONWIDE and a crime.
That's how Republicans think...5 people are cited, so STOP everything.
Make abortion illegal, incarcerate women raped, incest, and sodomized.
But Bush wants to invade Iraq, killing 100,000 locals in the process of "freeing" them, that's ok.
You simply cannot make this stuff up.

By: dargent7 on 11/7/11 at 10:41

L'ner: Be careful asking this board to, "hang on".
The gay bars aren't OPEN yet.

By: Loner on 11/7/11 at 10:42

The Spheres of Clairvoyance are telling me that In vox populi, veritas est...

Luckily, the Lone One was a Latin scholar in high school...no need to Google the phrase. The crystalline orbs always use Latin...when they text me a message....since they don't teach it in high school anymore, it's a safe cipher, even in the clear.

So, the "voice of the people" seems to be telling the truth, according to the balls. Here are the voices:

By: Loner on 11/7/11 at 8:29

Serr8d seems to have an obsession with jailhouse-style, homosexual, anal sex...anybody else notice that?

Here is the current roll call vote on that point, from our regular responders:

Dargent7 wrote, "Besides him being a closet gay, no."

Jvh2 wrote, "Ya know Loner--- you make an excellent point. I'd be willing to bet Serr is one of those that caused them to put in camera in some of the parks here...ya know since the out gays actually go to their place to do things ... while the self loathing gays can't bring their trysts home...so they gotta do it at the park..."

Brrrrk wrote, "Loner, I suspect that your suspicions regarding serr8d could be well founded. To paraphrase the Bard, "The dude doth protest too much, methinks.""

Serr8d responded too, he wrote, "That's the best deterrent our prison system has left anymore."

The balls are clear on this.

By: Loner on 11/7/11 at 10:52

Ben, you have Mayan Skulls?

They are so hard to find nowadays..I checked E-Bay, Amazon.com etc...no Mayan Skulls...I Googled it...seems having a Mayan Skull is illegal....the Lacey Act...it applies to extinct as well as endangered....Better turn it in to the authorities; if they find that in your house, or shop (lab?) you will be in deep doo-doo, Doctor Dover...your license could be yanked.

Nice quotes, Brrrrk. Lots of wisdom there.

Ben, any comment on the topic of the day, have you noticed Serr8d's obsession with jail-house anal sex? Every vote counts.

Yogi, you can vote on this too.

By: BenDover on 11/7/11 at 10:56

There butt for the grace of God go I, Loner.

By: BenDover on 11/7/11 at 11:01

It's probably where Serr8 and I part ways. I think we've got too many jails... too many crimes... too many cops... too many courts... too many judges... and too many lawyers.

It's way past the point of diminishing returns in this country and the idiot population regardless of political stripe wants to CRACK DOWN ON CRIME. It's the one thing the left and right can agree on so we've got an ever-growing slice of the economy going more to non-value-added activities; and in the worst case activities detrimental to the value of society in that it takes would-be productive members of society - robs them of that productivity and teaches them in mind and in spirit to be real malcontents and criminals.

By: Loner on 11/7/11 at 11:03

Amen, Brother Dover. Live & let live. Deeds, not creeds. all men are brothers; all women are sisters..and now Kum-By-Yah...(a tuba solo):


By: BenDover on 11/7/11 at 11:09

Have not ordered my tin-whistles yet Loner. I'm gonna ask Santa, I think.

By: dargent7 on 11/7/11 at 11:24

Bush knowingly invades a country that had ZERO to do with 9/11, with the CIA's and FBI's, and ATF's blessing,....yet 2 guys took a crap on a Police car in Oakland, CA last week during Occupy, and thus: "The whole movement is based on Communism...."

By: Captain Nemo on 11/7/11 at 11:25

Tea Party keeps its sexual preference for them selves and in my closet.
Dick Holder-

By: Captain Nemo on 11/7/11 at 11:26

A good place to keep all the homos and all left wing wackos is Antioch. They can just go screw themselves all they want there. It would good entertainment for us descent folks to watch.
Dick Holder-