Up for Debate: Haslam disagrees with evolution bill, lets it pass

Tuesday, April 10, 2012 at 9:05pm

Gov. Bill Haslam declined Tuesday to veto House Bill 368/Senate Bill 893, which would open up the debate in classrooms regarding scientific issues such as evolution, global warming, creationism, et al. 

Haslam said: "I do not believe that this legislation changes the scientific standards that are taught in our schools or the curriculum that is used by our teachers. However, I also don’t believe that it accomplishes anything that isn’t already acceptable in our schools.

“The bill received strong bipartisan support, passing the House and Senate by a three-to-one margin, but good legislation should bring clarity and not confusion. My concern is that this bill has not met this objective. For that reason, I will not sign the bill but will allow it to become law without my signature.”

Do you agree with Haslam's take on the bill? What about his decision not to put his signature on a veto but say the bill doesn't meet the objective it should?

144 Comments on this post:

By: brrrrk on 4/11/12 at 10:03

gdiafante said

"So, you're argument is that the market is determining that going green is profitable? Yay Capitalism."

I love the way that the right yells about how green energy should stand on it's own legs without subsidies while at the same time supporting nuclear energy, which by the way, wouldn't exist without the underwriting by our government through the Price-Andersen Act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price%E2%80%93Anderson_Nuclear_Industries_Indemnity_Act

By: yogiman on 4/11/12 at 10:03

gdiafante,

I say the Sanford police have a reason for not making an arrest already. Are you insisting they should arrest Zimmerman on the spot when they have no legitimate reason, especially when they have a witness who told them Trayvon had him on the ground bashing his head against the concrete.

And it now seems this guy is afraid to come back out again. Wonder why?

By: gdiafante on 4/11/12 at 10:04

I've been to third world countries and seen firsthand what pollution can do, Ben.

Stereotypes don't just materialize out of thin air. They have some basis in fact. The fact is that many a business would put the bottom line ahead of what's in the best interest of the community/environment. In fact, many have.

Now, as with any stereotype, it doesn't represent all, but it does exist for a reason.

By: yogiman on 4/11/12 at 10:06

And by the way, gdiafane, what does this case have to do with the Constitution?

By: yogiman on 4/11/12 at 10:07

And by the way, gdiafane, what does this case have to do with the Constitution?

By: Moonglow1 on 4/11/12 at 10:07

Moonglow1: Who benefits from this anti climate change bill? Haslam. The revenues from his Pilot gas stations increase. Without high speed rail and more efficient cars, he benefits. Keeping TN dumb!! Dumb us down with dumb laws, keeps Haslam's revenue up. Same with the Koch's. Debunk climate change and they benefit-big time. Who loses? You do!!!

Yogi: What does our President have to do with Haslam and this monkey bill. Yogi, are you a US citizen? Just wonder because of your disparaging comments about our President. Most Americans rally around the Commander in Chief of the United States.

By: gdiafante on 4/11/12 at 10:09

Well, yogi, the Constitutional scholar, that document prevents someone from being convicted without due process...didn't you get the memo? Moron.

By: gdiafante on 4/11/12 at 10:11

Actually, yogi, they do have legitimate reasons as the evidence is pretty conflicting. Again, why do you need to be spoonfed the information on this? Can't you comprehend the issues on your own?

By: BenDover on 4/11/12 at 10:12

Businesses don't set out with the aim of destroying the environment. Quite the contrary is true. Business leaders hold the same views and environmental concerns as the population at large. They are usually keenly aware, however, of how this must be balanced against the economics of the matter. It usually takes more than a :30 second frothing hyperventilating sound bite to make that point though so advantage to Al Gore.

I do I know though, that none of my kids' teachers in 'science' or any other class ever made that point to them during their 'education' either.

By: brrrrk on 4/11/12 at 10:14

BenDover said

"They are usually keenly aware, however, of how this must be balanced against the economics of the matter."

Just curious Ben, is there ANYTHING in your life that you don't attach a dollar sign to?

By: yogiman on 4/11/12 at 10:18

Moonglow1,

You can call the man your president if you wish, but I insist the man I'm calling my president be in that office legally, and Barry Soetoro is not in there legally.

If he was, don't you even have enough intelligence to think he would readily prove it? Sorry, I guess I'm wrong.

By: gdiafante on 4/11/12 at 10:22

They may not set out to destroy it, Ben, but sometimes they do. Some care, others don't. That's pretty representative of everything.

Not every Southerner is a dumb hick, but enough are to perpetuate the stereotype.

Same thing with the evil Industrialist...

I can't help but think you may have had the teacher from "Another Brick in the Wall" which explains why you have a chip on your shoulder regarding education.

By: BigPapa on 4/11/12 at 10:23

I think a good science teacher should test this law and present EVERY origin theory from every culture. Spend as much time as it takes to fully exploring the origin theory of pre-christian cultures, the Australian aborigines, American indians, tribes in the Amazon, etc... once you've completely covered ALL the bases, then start on actual science.

By: gdiafante on 4/11/12 at 10:26

I agree Papa. And, they should include Pete's theory from LaVergne. He thinks that the universe was created by a software program ala The Matrix. Steve Jobs was the messiah and ascended to heaven recently.

By: brrrrk on 4/11/12 at 10:32

BigPapa said

"I think a good science teacher should test this law and present EVERY origin theory from every culture. Spend as much time as it takes to fully exploring the origin theory of pre-christian cultures, the Australian aborigines, American indians, tribes in the Amazon, etc... once you've completely covered ALL the bases, then start on actual science."

Hey, don't leave out the Flying Spaghetti Monster..... he's just as relevant. May you be blessed by his noodly appendage.

By: BenDover on 4/11/12 at 10:34

My concern about money is only eclipsed by your disregard of it, brrrrk.

In truth, however, money is not evil but a measure and medium of exchange. It has no emotion and together with a largely unfettered market is a far better arbiter of good and bad than a bunch of smarter-than-every-one-else elitists who wish to impose policy from on high without regard to individual circumstance or the potential unintended consequences of their own biases.

By: BenDover on 4/11/12 at 10:37

Building strawmen is become a treasured past-time of this board.

By: gdiafante on 4/11/12 at 10:42

Money is the golden calf, Ben. Moses is pissed.

By: BenDover on 4/11/12 at 10:43

As for green energy, I'm good with subsidies, but don't try to bolster that advancement by using the government's regulatory strong-arm to add the cost of everything fossil. That just amounts to another non-value-added highly regressive tax on the people who can afford it least. We need to wring out what we have of the fossil energy to bridge the gap to affordable renewables not create faux scarcity to force us to adopt it before the market is ready

By: BenDover on 4/11/12 at 10:46

It is "the love of money that is to root of all evil", gd. (emphasis mine).

Money itself is a fantastic invention of trade that has advanced society immeasurably.

By: gdiafante on 4/11/12 at 10:46

When exactly is the market going to be ready, Ben? It's been 40 years since the first market shock, it's only gotten worse.

By: brrrrk on 4/11/12 at 10:48

BigPapa said

"I think a good science teacher should test this law and present EVERY origin theory from every culture."

Actually, I've suspected from the beginning that this idea of pushing Creationism into the science curriculum of schools is a way of interjecting Christianity without competition from other faiths. Think about it, if they brought it [Creationism] into the schools by means of a class like Comparative Religions (which by the way I have no issues with) they would have to present the Christian creation myth on equal footing with all the other creation myths in the world..... and God knows they don't want that. Why that would be too much like learning something!!

But here's the thing, nobody's being fooled here... anyone with any common sense knows that Creationism as science is akin to putting a Scientific America cover on a copy of Mad Magazine, just cause it says science on the outside doesn't mean that there isn't something stupid on the inside.

By: gdiafante on 4/11/12 at 10:49

Ben, the love of money is essential to our economy. That is incompatible with Christianity, IMO. Read Christ's teachings, not the mutilated interpretation of wealthy religious leaders.

By: BenDover on 4/11/12 at 10:52

It's not so much when the market is ready for the product but when the product is ready for the market. We've made good investments in advancing alternative energies and as they stand now we could cut should our fossil resources go away. This is a huge safety net that would not exist without our investments to foster the market.

I think we should proceed now, though, in a way that is rational and reasonable rather than in a way that launders hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars through non-viable green energy companies to become graft and campaign cash for the Obama administration.

By: brrrrk on 4/11/12 at 10:53

BenDover said

"My concern about money is only eclipsed by your disregard of it, brrrrk."

Thank you....

By: BenDover on 4/11/12 at 10:56

I don't think you can distort Christ's teachings to say that he wanted us to take the resources of society at gun-point and flush them all through an inefficient, often corrupt and politically motivated bureaucracy, gd.

His was a message of voluntary individual charity... as there can logically be no other form.

By: BenDover on 4/11/12 at 11:10

We are called to be good stewards of that which is given us; and, in this great country we live, our influence upon the machinations of government fall under that role of stewardship.

By: BenDover on 4/11/12 at 11:25

I just read the bill. It says nothing at all about teaching Creation. In fact it specifically forbids it.

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/107/Bill/HB0368.pdf

By: BenDover on 4/11/12 at 11:26

The media malfeasance here is astounding.

By: brrrrk on 4/11/12 at 11:30

"Nature hath implanted in our breasts a love of others, a sense of duty to them, a moral instinct, in short, which prompts us irresistibly to feel and to succor their distresses.... It is true that they are not planted in every man, because there is no rule without exceptions; but it is false reasoning which converts exceptions into the general rule. Some men were born without the organs of sight, or of hearing, or without hands. Yet it would be wrong to say that man is born without those faculties, and sight, hearing, and hands may with truth enter into the general definition of man." - Thomas Jefferson.

By: jvh2b on 4/11/12 at 11:31

"Yes, that's right. Is it really any more incredible than an omnipotent intelligent being that always existed randomly deciding to create life on a little planet in the middle of nothing?:

*Thunderous applause* to you on that one gd.

Ben - While I admire your boyish trust of the free market and big business, reality has proven that time and time again, companies will cut corners and get away with and hide anything they can in the pursuit of the all mighty dollar. Cigarette companies, the power company Erin Brockovitch went after, just to name a couple. We find out things almost daily now that companies full well knew dangers of their products and STILL sold them to us w/o so much as a warning. I seem to remember some memo from a car company about it would be cheaper to pay death claims due to their defect than do a recall...

By: brrrrk on 4/11/12 at 11:36

BenDover said

I just read the bill. It says nothing at all about teaching Creation. In fact it specifically forbids it.

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/107/Bill/HB0368.pdf

Give me a break.... the bill is clearly a "wink wink" to the Christian right. Name one other faith other than Christianity that is pushing Creationism as science.

By: Rasputin72 on 4/11/12 at 11:38

Obviously there are 13 or 14 posters who have always been a little short on money. It
appears that essentials are the best part of their lives.

I think having enough money to consider that 75% of your expenditures are purely discretionary would change their minds about a lot of their thinking about life,politics and social order.

By: brrrrk on 4/11/12 at 11:42

jvh2b said

"Ben - While I admire your boyish trust of the free market and big business, reality has proven that time and time again, companies will cut corners and get away with and hide anything they can in the pursuit of the all mighty dollar. Cigarette companies, the power company Erin Brockovitch went after, just to name a couple. We find out things almost daily now that companies full well knew dangers of their products and STILL sold them to us w/o so much as a warning. I seem to remember some memo from a car company about it would be cheaper to pay death claims due to their defect than do a recall..."

But gee, you're missing the point.... if some big company does you wrong in Bens magical world, you simply take them to court. After all, it's easy for parents who have lost a child as a result of the bad behavior of some company, to cough of the millions of dollars and the unimaginable numbers of hours it would take to take them on. No big deal.....

By: Loner on 4/11/12 at 11:46

Moonglow suggested it....Change the name of the Preds, Titans or Sounds?

Suggested New Names: The Metro Monkeys. The Nashville Numbskulls? The Tennessee Theocrats? The Cumberland Creationists?

By: brrrrk on 4/11/12 at 11:48

jvh2b,

And if you're really lucky, the company will pay you off with a settlement requiring a gag order so you can no longer publicly discuss that issue while they move on to killing some other parents kid......

By: Loner on 4/11/12 at 11:52

The New Genesis: "In the beginning, there was a singularity. Then God, a creative Jewish fellow, said, "Let there be a Big Bang."

"And lo and behold, the super-massive black hole exploded....and the Jewish fellow saw that it was good"

(How am I doing...?)

By: jvh2b on 4/11/12 at 11:53

Good ole USA - for the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations.

Only to be highly worsened by the Citizens United decision.

Loner -- I about spit out my drink...nice.

By: brrrrk on 4/11/12 at 11:53

Loner said

"The New Genesis: "In the beginning, there was a singularity. Then God, a creative Jewish fellow, said, "Let there be a Big Bang."

"And lo and behold, the super-massive black hole exploded....and the Jewish fellow saw that it was good"

(How am I doing...?)"

Don't forget the snake Loner..... that's my favorite part. :-)

By: Loner on 4/11/12 at 11:59

Yeah, the fork-tongued serpent will have a starring role, Brrrrk...and thanks for the support Jvh2....I'll get to the begetting part right away....right after Adam forces Eve to eat the Apple.....the Loner's Bible could be the next big thing?

By: brrrrk on 4/11/12 at 12:03

Loner said

"Moonglow suggested it....Change the name of the Preds, Titans or Sounds?"

I don't know about that Loner. Preditors seems to fit given that most here are all about the idea of the rich ruling the world... that has preditor written all over it. Titans? Well that was a term used by the klan to define one of their leadership positions... so that still fits somewhat given that the klan originated here in Tennessee. And as for the Sounds? Ahhh, it's the Sounds... who cares about the Sounds?

By: dargent7 on 4/11/12 at 12:21

Going "Green" without a gun to your head"?
Yes. That's what government agencies do.
If not, AquaNet and Gillette would still use freon in their products causing a hole in the Ozone.
GM, Ford, and Chrysler would still be manufacturing cars getting 15 mpg.
Why would they care?
Now, it's 30mpg or people would buy a KIA, Hyundai.
PG & E would still be contaminating the water tables, causing cancer, and deny it.
The list is endless.

By: slacker on 4/11/12 at 12:23

I think the textbook John Scopes taught from, actually included a chapter on evolution, even though illegal by state law.
Damn sneaky arsed liberal proof-reader if you ask me.

By: slacker on 4/11/12 at 12:26

brrrrk, we gotta have money to pick-up chicks, all part of natural selection.
It's in the book, really.

By: slacker on 4/11/12 at 12:30

Anyway.. it will provide Burch material for his fri. rant.
''Haslam hassle's us deep thinkers''

By: brrrrk on 4/11/12 at 12:42

dargent7 said

"GM, Ford, and Chrysler would still be manufacturing cars getting 15 mpg.
Why would they care?
Now, it's 30mpg or people would buy a KIA, Hyundai."

And here's another thing that the right fails to consider when it comes to something like fuel efficient cars. Every dollar that is NOT spent pumping an antiquated fuel into an antiquated and inefficient consumer of that fuel is available to be spent somewhere else.... thus improving the economy, as well as improving our environment. But hey, why be smart when it's just as easy to roll over for big oil and be dumb.... there's more money in it anyway (at least for some of us).

By: Moonglow1 on 4/11/12 at 1:12

Moonglow1: Loner, I like Metro Monkey's!!! We could brand the name using Haslam's face superimposed on the monkey. Look on line at The Huffington Post: see the little monkey in the suit sitting in an office below the TN headline!!

P. S. Based on Yogi's last post seems he is not an American.

By: Moonglow1 on 4/11/12 at 1:21

Moonglow1: Breaking News-Zimmerman to be charged.

By: BenDover on 4/11/12 at 2:09

Did anyone bother reading the amendment?

By: gdiafante on 4/11/12 at 2:19

I read the amendment. I'm not really concerned about the verbage, I'm worried about the intent. Now Ben, you're a smart guy, you know what the intent of this law is and why it was created...pun intended.