Up for Debate: HCA's proposed tax break

Tuesday, March 20, 2012 at 11:44pm

Does a company producing a net income of $2.5 billion deserve a $3 million property tax abatement from Metro?

89 Comments on this post:

By: Captain Nemo on 3/21/12 at 3:50

This is a cut and paste from the main story.

Is this Corporate Welfare or Corporate Extortion or maybe it is both?

By: Captain Nemo on 3/21/12 at 3:58

From yesterday

By: Captain Nemo on 3/20/12 at 5:06
Loner-

The real trouble about my beating the zombie is that everything goes over his head. Or is it in one ear out the other. At any point it is too stupid to know it is stupid. LOL

By: yogiman on 3/20/12 at 5:32
Well, if you had the adequate capacity, dumba$$, you could shovel it into my head. Sorry, but as a shoveler, you just don't know how to pick up a shovel. If you did, you'd probably try to throw all of that s... over your shoulder toward me and it would land on your head.

By: yogiman on 3/20/12 at 5:34
Well, if you had the adequate capacity, dumba$$, you could shovel it into my head. Sorry, but as a shoveler, you just don't know how to pick up a shovel. If you did, you'd probably try to throw all of that s... over your shoulder toward me and it would land on your head.

By: yogiman on 3/20/12 at 5:36
Darn, I said it twice. Ah well, maybe I won't have to repeat myself for you to understand.

By: Captain Nemo on 3/20/12 at 5:51
No one is as good as you at shoveling the s*it as you yogi.
By: Captain Nemo on 3/20/12 at 6:09
Let me put it another way, yogi you are the best at shoveling s*it.

By: Captain Nemo on 3/20/12 at 6:13
Still another way for someone has unintelligent as you yogi.

I can’t hold a shovel next to you. You are the master shoveler (sic) of all that stinks.

By: Captain Nemo on 3/20/12 at 6:18
One more way; yogi, when it comes to swing a shovel, you are the best and greatest pooper scooper of all.

By: Captain Nemo on 3/21/12 at 4:07

By: yogiman on 3/20/12 at 6:54
Hang in there, dumba$$, you might post something with an intelligent meaning some day... but I doubt it.

I yield to the master of the shovel and disorder. No one has less to say and has taken a lifetime to say than yogi.

This all the time I have to waste on nothing. Let see if Loner and the rest will do the same.

By: dargent7 on 3/21/12 at 4:47

This is no way to start the morning...
There is NO way anyone can change "yogi's" , "mind".
According to him, no one in America knows who Barack Obama, "is".
No one ever heard of him, he doesn't have a valid birth cert., no one know's where he went to school, where his college transcripts are, why he changed his name, why the American people voted for him, why he won the election in 2008.
"No one know's!" It's perfect for a "Twlight Zone" episode if Rod Serling was still alive.
Paul Wade is a sociopath. He gets his "talking points" from a nut up in Jeaune, Alaska. He could legally be incarcerated on a "5150".

By: gdiafante on 3/21/12 at 5:27

Nemo, no need to drudge up all this stuff. Yogi will start soon enough as it is.

By: bfra on 3/21/12 at 5:46

Should a UFO happen to land here & their first encounter is with the likes of yogi, they will leave faster than they came. They will be wondering why they thought intelligent life existed here!

By: Loner on 3/21/12 at 5:48

Good morning, Nashville.

To the topic: Does a company producing a net income of $2.5 billion deserve a $3 million property tax abatement from Metro?

That's a loaded question that begs the answer, "Hell NO!" But there must be more to it than that. Is that the net profit or the gross profit? The question uses the term "net", but I wonder if that's true....these outfits have ways to get the "net" down to zero or below.

This HCA is one of ex-Senator Frist's cash cows, right...it's a family business, if i recall.

Frist was a big fan of conservatism, unless it applied to his cash cow...then he favored corporate welfare...like these generous tax breaks etc.

Frist decided not to run for reelection after the feds started to nose around about his "blind trust", which apparently had 20-20 vision...he was lucky to have left the Senate with his legacy, fortune and reputation intact...I think the man is a sleaze and a crook, quite frankly.

By: govskeptic on 3/21/12 at 5:51

Good or bad both HCA and Gaylord have played the Property Tax and
Water rate/sewer issues to the absolute maximum with this city for
many-many years. The numbers of employees and capital investments
promised to decide the extent of these breaks are never followed up
on to know if the loss in revenue is justified or not!

By: bfra on 3/21/12 at 5:52

Loner - Your thinking is very astute on this subject.

By: Loner on 3/21/12 at 5:54

Bfra, if that strange encounter occurred - Yogi and ET - the alien might deduce that Yogi was somebody's house pet...."Take us to your owner...earth-pet.", they might "say"... through their translator device....."....and show us your birth documents, please."

By: Loner on 3/21/12 at 6:01

Thank you, Bfra.

Gov, you are making sense here this morning...I totally agree with your 6:51 post.

By: yogiman on 3/21/12 at 6:38

Wake up, children. You need to learn what's happening in our country. If you're ready for communism, you've got it made. And if you understood history, you'd understand Obama is just another step in that direction and with your feeble minds, it looks like he might be the final one in office for the take over.

If you have a few spare minutes, check out www.morningstarv.com/oak-initiative/marxism-america/

You may learn a little.

By: gdiafante on 3/21/12 at 6:42

Do me a favor, yogi, wipe your @ss with the nutjob propaganda sites. Nothing you post is based in reality. I get it...you're old, bigoted and afraid.

Move to a compound in Montana and prepare for the end times. That would be your best option.

By: jvh2b on 3/21/12 at 6:59

Well at least I can say things here are consistent!!!

If ever my world is in turmoil, I can just come here and see the crazy one going on and on and on, and everyone else having a rational debate.

How is everyone this fine morning?

By: yogiman on 3/21/12 at 7:05

I'm afraid you're the damn fool you think of me to be, gdiafante. You are either a damn fool by your ignorance of what's going on in this nation, or by your sound acceptance of the [so called] current president. Or you're a Marxist right beside him.

By: yogiman on 3/21/12 at 7:10

Want an education, gdiafante? Go to www.usasurvival.org/new-videos.html and listen to those men.

By: i.am.a.taxpayer on 3/21/12 at 7:10

Regarding the quesion of whethre a company producing a net income of $2.5 billion deserves a $3 million property tax abatement from Metro, what is the cost-benefit ratio? Metro loses $3 million and HCA stockholders gain $3 million. I thought Metro has had budget problems for years.

By: gdiafante on 3/21/12 at 7:11

Yogi, please direct your lunacy at someone else. It's obvious that you're a troll, have an inability to rationalize and are completely nuts. I'm only asking this once, then I'll let the website deal with you.

By: yogiman on 3/21/12 at 7:27

Goodbye, gdiafante. It's a shame you can't see beyond your nose but It's much better to "talk" to rational thinking people.

Now let's see which fool the website throws out the door.

By: gdiafante on 3/21/12 at 7:28

I suggest we all ignore the troll...you too Nemo.

By: Moonglow1 on 3/21/12 at 7:30

Moonglow1: Loner, HCA is owned by The Frists. Bill Frist built a mini White House complete with columns-the works I hear daddy Frist, the HCA founder owns a 26,000 square foot mansion. Man business start ups got their start from HCA seed money\venture capital.

Of greater interest is the fact that Rick Scott the current governor of Florida ran HCA. He was under indictment for bilking millions from Medicare. One person (yes only one) went to prison Rick Scott was run out of town. Yes, he come from Texas with a George Bush connection.

So is it right to give HCA a tax deduction? No!!! But people keep voting for Corporate Welfare. It's the way of the land now. Vote to cut your benefits (health care, Medicare, social security, and more) but preserve tax cuts for the wealthy.

By: Moonglow1 on 3/21/12 at 7:38

Moonglow1: The "other side" will argue that HCA creates jobs. So do many businesses. How shall we determine which one gets a big fat "Corporate Welfare Check. "

There was a time when HCA left Nashville for Louisville, but then returned. So business is fickle. Jobs in one city one year and another city the next year. There is no loyalty.

Also, under Rick Scott HCA was re-using like heart stents and other devices to save money. I would not go there for surgery. I do not know if their business practices have changed but maximizing profit is the Only Goal!

By: Loner on 3/21/12 at 7:45

Mornin', JV....yeah the status quo is static.

Thanks for the info, Moonglow. The Frist family could be a model for a prime time soap opera along the lines of "Dallas"? Corporate welfare tycoons living high on the guvmint hog, while supporting ultra-conservative and hate-based causes.....that's something folks would watch, IMO. Functional name for the series: "The Frisks."

Sometimes class warfare is not without some justification.....envy sells.

By: Funditto on 3/21/12 at 7:46

Speaking of trolls, how's ol' Sidney aka Bud Light?

By: BenDover on 3/21/12 at 7:46

The idea is part of a plan to revitalize Antioch. It's a blasted out shell now of what was one of the city's best middle class areas; but it does hold the promise of a come-back. The proximity to down-town is great.

The Vandy investment in 100 Oaks has really paid off. Hopefully this is another that will have similar results. If they fix Antioch the increase in property values will quickly pay for the tax break to HCA to build their data-center here.

The choice really is do we have a new data center with an extra 150 jobs in Antioch or do we have nothing?

By: dargent7 on 3/21/12 at 7:48

"Yogi's" rants make you yearn for the olden days when all we had to put up with was "Sidney" who's vegetable garden housed her husband.

By: yogiman on 3/21/12 at 7:52

This is a list of communist goals to destabilize the United States at a congressional hearing in 1963.

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could e used for war.
5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to U.N.
8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khruschev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
11.Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If it's charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these to centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo).
12. Resist any attempts to outlaw the Communist party.
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
15. Capture one of both of the political parties in the United States.

There's more.

By: bfra on 3/21/12 at 8:08

diafante - He is too ignorant to know he is being ignored!

By: Rasputin72 on 3/21/12 at 8:08

I am much more troubled by the purchase of Bob Frensley Ford property by Karl Dean than I am the reduced taxation on HCA.

By: BenDover on 3/21/12 at 8:13

Good article about C.S. Lewis and his views on statism.

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=3273

By: jvh2b on 3/21/12 at 8:20

I'm with Ben on the HCA coming to Antioch. Not sure it's the scale needed to revitalize it like Vandy did to 100 oaks...but it's a start.

By: gdiafante on 3/21/12 at 8:24

I'd agree with that. The last time I was at the Hickory Hollow area I could not believe how downhill it has become. I lived right off of Bell Road when they started to build the Mall in the late 70's...It's a shame how bad it is.

By: yogiman on 3/21/12 at 8:34

More Communist goals at a congressional hearing in 1963

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American Institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teacher's associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attacks.
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of the book-view assignments, editorial writing, policy making positions.
21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV and motion pictures.
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings. Substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."
24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."
27. Infiltrate the churches and replaced revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old fashion, out of step with modern needs. A hindrance to cooperation between nations of the worldwide basis.
30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

There's more.

By: BenDover on 3/21/12 at 8:37

Shopping moved out to Rutherford and the thugs moved in. It doomed the mall. The area's pretty good for office and light industrial though. Nashville State's going to set up shop too... and a health department annex I think.

By: jvh2b on 3/21/12 at 8:38

You would be correct in all of those Ben

By: gdiafante on 3/21/12 at 8:42

It's still too bad. Murfreesboro is too crowded and Cool Springs and Rivergate is too far (for southern Davidson, northern Rutherford). That was a pretty good location.

By: bfra on 3/21/12 at 8:46

gdiafante - The Avenue is not in a crowded area, yet, and has shops of a wide varity.

By: gdiafante on 3/21/12 at 8:49

If everything you want is at The Avenue...if you venture to the old Mall or Thompson Lane/Old Fort Parkway, look out. Avoid Cason Lane too.

By: BenDover on 3/21/12 at 8:53

Just watch out of the red-light cameras. M'boro in general though is a PitA to get around... the lights are timed horribly... the traffic sucks. It's one of those, "you can't get there from here" places. I just don't go there anymore if I can help it.

By: bfra on 3/21/12 at 9:02

gdiafante - I rarely go into M'boro, but do shop at the one on Sam Ridley.

By: brrrrk on 3/21/12 at 9:05

Let's also not forget that at one time HCA had one of the highest fines imposed upon them (and at that time it was THE highest) for medicare fraud; ripping off medicare for millions of dollars. Oh, and who was in charge of HCA at the time? Rick Scott, that right wing nutcase Governor of the great state of Florida.

"In 1987, at age 34, he co-founded Columbia Hospital Corporation with two business partners; this merged with Hospital Corporation of America in 1989 to form Columbia/HCA and eventually became the largest private for-profit health care company in the U.S. He was forced to resign as Chief Executive of Columbia/HCA in 1997 amid a scandal over the company's business and Medicare billing practices; the company ultimately admitted to fourteen felonies and agreed to pay the federal government over $600 million. Scott later became a venture capitalist." --- of course.

My point? HCA doesn't deserve a $3 million property tax abatement from Metro.... what they really deserve is to be out of business..... long ago!

By: gdiafante on 3/21/12 at 9:05

That's getting just as bad as M'boro, bfra. The lights are timed badly. If you have to turn left to get to Target/Kohl's, coming from the interstate, you might sit through the light 2 or 3 times.

By: bfra on 3/21/12 at 9:05

Rasputin72 - Bob Frensley has had his finger in the Metro pie for as long as I can remember. Don't know what the connection is, but they cater to him.

By: bfra on 3/21/12 at 9:08

The main problem I have with the one on Sam Ridley , is finding how to get into the place and then out. They really messed up the accesses.

By: bfra on 3/21/12 at 9:10

brrrrk - Has there ever been a Gov. of Florida that was honest?

By: gdiafante on 3/21/12 at 9:12

I think there was once a Spanish Governor...before the U.S. got a hold of it...that was honest...he told everyone he was corrupt up front...

By: brrrrk on 3/21/12 at 9:12

gdiafante said

"That's getting just as bad as M'boro, bfra. The lights are timed badly. If you have to turn left to get to Target/Kohl's, coming from the interstate, you might sit through the light 2 or 3 times."

Do what I do..... get off at the Waldron Rd exit and sneak down Industrial Blvd (the access road). It leads you right to Target. But watch out for the local yokels or you'll get a ticket on the access road.

By: gdiafante on 3/21/12 at 9:14

I've done that Brrrrk, but given the construction at Waldron road and the number of 18-wheelers on that access, it may be faster to sit through a couple of lights!

By: yogiman on 3/21/12 at 9:14

More Communist goals at a congressional hearing in 1963

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground it was only a minor part of the "big picture". Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communist took over.
32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture-education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
37. Infiltrate and gain control of big businesses.
38. Transfer the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].
39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special interest groups should rise and use ["] united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.
43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations re ready for self-government.
44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.
45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

How far do you think they have now come in achieving their goals? Where do you think they stand now? How long do you think it will take them to finish?

Read carefully and note the currant positions of the United States. Scary, isn't it, unless you're in their program.

The Communist attitude is; "one step at a time." How many steps have they taken in the United States the last 49 years?

By: brrrrk on 3/21/12 at 9:20

I see Commies.....