Up for Debate: Helping homeless, despite codes

Wednesday, November 28, 2012 at 10:27pm

What is your take on the homeless camp at the Green Street Church of Christ? Should the church be granted a variance of some sort to allow homeless persons to camp on its lawn in the mostly industrial neighborhood? Or is it a simple case of "rules are rules" and the camp should be shut down?

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Up for Debate

118 Comments on this post:

By: govskeptic on 11/29/12 at 7:07

Why not buy one of the empty Bellevue Mall stores and make it Salvation Army
bunketts west? They are very much a giving part of our Metro Area as well.

By: Rasputin72 on 11/29/12 at 7:17

There are too many of the "Simple Six"with ties to the homeless community for there to be a meaningful discussion.

If Yogi will refrain from posting for just one day he will see how much influence he has on this forum.
The low income trolls will be begging for his comments. LONER will think his rhetoric has fallen into an abyss.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/29/12 at 7:24

Rasputin

Why don't you practice what you preach and have some meaningful to say on this form.

Let the Big Rat Naw.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/29/12 at 7:30

gov has a point, but maybe instead of just one area of the county, there just be such places. That is until the Republicans stop being jerks and starting working for the country and not just themselves.

Let the Big Rat Starve!

By: yogiman on 11/29/12 at 7:37

dumba$$,

Please tell me; what's the biggest difference between the Republican Party being "jerks" and the Democrat Party being horses a$$es? Do you feel better qualified to belong to the Democratic party?

By: Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 7:46

Before the homes for the mentally ill were shut down before the Reagan administration there was not such a large homeless problem. We need to address providing help for the mentally ill who need medical assistance. That alone would lessen the number of homeless.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/29/12 at 7:46

It is such a nice day.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 7:48

I also believe that if someone has served in the military there is no reason why they should be homeless. We need to take care of our vets - many of whom suffer from Post Tramatic Stress and end up on the streets because of lack of heathcare and support services. But hey, those things cost tax dollars and we can't raise the taxes on the wealthy, right?

By: Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 7:48

Good morning, Nemo. :)

By: Captain Nemo on 11/29/12 at 7:49

That is true Blanket, but the fringe had rather hate then solve. Makes me wonder who is the mentally ill.

By: Loner on 11/29/12 at 7:50

Good morning, Nashville.

Once again, the NCP staff could not think of a topic for this board that was not covered elsewhere in the NCP...this is the re-hash board...the regurgitation board, apparently.
The main story is here:

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/content/city-news/neighbors-look-solutions-church-based-homeless-camp

The main story does not say whether the church is a "black church" or not....and the homeless clients....are they mainly black men?

And this Bobby Joslin character...the guy who's playing Monopoly with real money and real deeds in that neighborhood...the main complainant....is he a white guy with "race issues"?

I say leave the church be....boycott Joslin's sign business...the ostensibly Christian guy would throw out the "bums" at Christmas time....that's a sign of the times.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/29/12 at 7:50

Good morning to you Blanket.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/29/12 at 7:52

Bobby is white and was a friend of Sonny West.

By: yogiman on 11/29/12 at 7:54

Sorry, Rasputin72.

This old man isn't going to slow down until the usurper in office (and everyone in the 'game' with him) is tried for treason and either executed or put in prison for life for treason against this great nation. The only other way I'll be stopped is by my death.

Or unless someone on this site can prove me to be wrong in my knowledge of the matter.

And isn't it funny none of them has yet... as much as they've bitched in favor of "their" man.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/29/12 at 7:57

It is a beautiful day.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/29/12 at 8:03

The fringe seems to give lip service to our service men and women when we send them to war, but when they return batter and beaten and in need of our help...the fringe turns a back on these wounded wars.

Ratsputin calls them 47% and dismisses has lazy and useless.

Let the Big Rat Starve.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 8:04

Well, that explains a thing or two, Nemo. I can see both sides of the issue - I wouldn't be happy with the situation as a homeowner but I also understand how the church feels like they are defending their "mission."

By: yogiman on 11/29/12 at 8:05

Well, Loner,

I believe NCP owns this site. So I personally feel it's their choice to use it as they wish. Whatever subject they wish to "hear" from us about.

They might want to know our thoughts... don't you reckon? I would suggest if you don't like their "attitude" you should buy them out and set your own desired subjects on the site... changing it every day, of course if you wish.

And one point of the issue, Loner. You question the "race" issue of the 'camp'. Why? What difference does it make if you're black or white if you're down on your luck and homeless, especially if you're a vet.

How about leaving the race issue out of it, OK?

By: bfra on 11/29/12 at 8:08

Joslin is white & has his hands in more pockets than Sonny West. Ignore yogi & ilk! They have nothing of relevance to say or that is even truth on any subject.

By: bfra on 11/29/12 at 8:09

Nemo - Like your adage for Raspy, it fits.

By: Loner on 11/29/12 at 8:30

Ah, that explains much...Joslin was one of Sonny West's cronies and gumbas....yep, the old ordinance and variance song & dance...gotta be able to dance that number, if one is in the signage business...how much did Joslin kick back to West over the years? One can only imagine.

The picture is becoming more clear...Joslin is a well-connected, white entrepreneur and local high roller and the tent camp for homeless men in his neighborhood is bugging the hell out of the guy....good. If I lived in Nashville, I'd go and camp out for a few nights at the church, just to show my support.

Time for the homeless to make their own sign....take a cheap blue poly tarp and use yellow duct tape to form the letters of the text...yellow on blue is highly readable and the banner is durable as well as cheap.

Suggested text: JESUS WAS HOMELESS TOO.

By: gdiafante on 11/29/12 at 8:30

I also believe that if someone has served in the military there is no reason why they should be homeless. We need to take care of our vets - many of whom suffer from Post Tramatic Stress and end up on the streets because of lack of heathcare and support services. But hey, those things cost tax dollars and we can't raise the taxes on the wealthy, right?

Hear, hear! Apparently the 'support the troops' mantra is really 'support the troops when it's convenient'.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 8:37

g, it's "support the troops" when it's the poor kids (someone else's kids) going to war. Then when they come home damanged complain about the 47% and whine about taxes when someone tries to fund resources to help them.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 8:39

I saw a segment on the news last week of a woman who moved to the United States and was disturbed by reports of military vets who were not being cared for so she brought two of them into her home and "adopted" them as part of their family to show her gratitude. They each have their own rooms and she feeds them and makes sure they get their medicine and get to their doctor's appointments. She views them as an inspiration to her family and "adopted" grandparents for her own kids.

By: gdiafante on 11/29/12 at 8:47

I do believe that Ben is right about one thing, some of the moral fabric of this nation has eroded. Now, I don't attribute this to secularism, as many of those who display immoral behavior are Christians. I believe that the pervasive selfishness that permeates our entire society is the largest factor. Individualism...we're not in this together, it's every person for themself...that's really the problem.

There can be no compassion for your fellow man because that might give him an advantage or would be considered a handout. Sometimes we should just do the right thing...we are all in this together...it's in our freaking name for God's sake...the United States of America.

By: BenDover on 11/29/12 at 8:48

There but for the grace of God go I. I pray that if I ever have a break-down that drives me to the point of saying, 'f*ck it' and living on the streets that I'll meet with some charitable people and organizations who help nurse me through it or at least provide comfort along the journey.

Although I tell everyone not to 'feed the bears' I peal off a $5 or $10 from time to time... hopefully it is for a guy in real need of a meal ... or a beer... or a pack of smokes ... something to help him through the night.

I really wish the real homeless could somehow self-patrol and roll all the down-town shake-down bums to the point that they leave our fair city alone. After 9:00p on weeknights lower Broad is like shanty town and I'm sure that many tourists make it a one visit experience after dealing with all that.

By: BenDover on 11/29/12 at 8:51

One of my favorite movie shorts seems to fit the topic today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwtoQprjRgc

By: BenDover on 11/29/12 at 8:55

I think you sometimes conflate the desire to limit government with greed and selfishness, gd. It's a common affliction these days.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 8:55

I agree about the moral fabric too and it has nothing to do with secularism. This whole pervasive selfish attitude cloaked as "Individualism" is the root of a lot of our problems and rabid commercialism helps drive it.

By: budlight on 11/29/12 at 8:56

By: Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 7:46
Before the homes for the mentally ill were shut down before the Reagan administration there was not such a large homeless problem. We need to address providing help for the mentally ill who need medical assistance. That alone would lessen the number of homeless.
By: Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 7:48
I also believe that if someone has served in the military there is no reason why they should be homeless. We need to take care of our vets - many of whom suffer from Post Tramatic Stress and end up on the streets because of lack of heathcare and support services. But hey, those things cost tax dollars and we can't raise the taxes on the wealthy, right?

You are right about the mentally ill and providing help for them. But the catch 22 is that some of the mentally ill do not want help. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. If these people do not WANT to take the meds or live in group homes, they cannot be forced to.

And as for the military, there are those who have been diagnosed with PTSD, as well as civilians, who do what they are supposed to do and get along quite well, but again, if vets or others don't want to take the meds or work their program, it doesn't matter. The Vets have the VA and those who utilize it seem do do well.

We could tax everyone 100% and the government would still get it screwed up. We spend millions on Aids research for a CURE, yet current statistics state that 27% of all new aids cases are gay males from age 13 to 27. Gee, it would seem that with so much money being spent, the gay community could figure out that the cure is within their own reach. If you are 13 to 27 (or any other age) and engaging in unprotected sex, you are definitely going to be at risk for an STD (male or female). How's a cure going to stop the spread? There is a cure for a headache -- it's a tylenol or aspirin, but you have to have a headache first or there's no point in taking an aspirin. If people want to STOP AIDS, they stop the behavior that attributes first hand to getting aids - unprotected sex! Just look at Africa if you want to see a perfect example.

And if the church wants homeless people to stay at their location, why does it have to be on the lawn? Why not have them stay inside the church in classrooms converted to sleeping rooms for the night? How's pitching a tent helping them? They need 4 walls and a roof especially during winter. There are plenty of vacant buildings just waiting to be converted into sleeping rooms. IF ONLY we could get rid of the excessive government RED TAPE.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 8:56

Ben, "limited government" can mean not providing services and healthcare to these folks who need it the most.

By: Loner on 11/29/12 at 8:57

I Googled around and discovered a few things...the pastor at the Green Road church, Rev. Jim Atwood, wears a couple of hats...he's not just a pastor, he's a real estate and software man.

According to this source, Pastor Jim is also: "1. Certified residential real estate appraiser 2. Approved instructor for the Appraisal Institute 3. Approved instructor for CompCruncher software."

Source:

http://us.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Jim/Atwood

The plot thickens and sickens....is Atwood playing property value games with Joslin? Is this a payback deal? Is the "homeless camp" a smokescreen for more ulterior motives?

I do not trust holy-men, nor realtors...a holy-man/realtor is automatically under suspicion in my book.

There is more to this story than meets the eye...the NCP needs to dig deeper to find the real reasons for this confrontation....is there bad blood between Atwood and Joslin?

By: Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 8:58

Looking at statistics and studies is more productive than just judging people and making assumptions.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 8:59

Now that's some interesting sleuthing, Loner! Gotta tip my hat to you on that!

By: Captain Nemo on 11/29/12 at 9:02

Ben it is not always a break down that puts a person on the street. This could happen to anyone. Look at what happen with the people in the wake of Katrina or Sandy. The lose of a job or catastrophe illness.

By the grace of God it has not happen to you, Ben.

By: budlight on 11/29/12 at 9:10

Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 8:37
g, it's "support the troops" when it's the poor kids (someone else's kids) going to war. Then when they come home damanged complain about the 47% and whine about taxes when someone tries to fund resources to help them.

Blanket no one wants our troops to not get help, but some of them don't want help. As for letting them live in my home, how many homeless people have you housed lately? How many people have you taken to Sam's or Costco to stock up on groceries for their family lately?

We all contribute in some way. Our taxes are high enough. Those rich people that you and your ilk hate, probably donate more to charity than all the nay sayers combined. I know from the record that Romney gives more than odrama and byden combined. Byden only gives 5% of his money to charity, including his tithe to his church. So how's he helping the situation? He's not.

By: Mike Burch on 11/29/12 at 9:11

Why not have a park for homeless people, where the "rules" of society are relaxed, but there is no fighting allowed? Churches and humanitarian organizations could provide people to keep the peace and mediate disputes. There could be a building with showers and a large room to escape the elements. We create parks to protect wildlife, so why not one for human beings who don't always fit into society? Of course going there would be voluntary, but it would give the homeless another, more attractive, option.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 9:11

Judging, judging, judging..........the "Christian" way.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 9:12

Mike, that's an interesting idea. Probably too progressive for Nashville.....

By: Captain Nemo on 11/29/12 at 9:13

Loner digs deeper and finds more dirt. It is a good thing for rats that he does not dig . lol

If Bobby is near, better look twice.

By: Loner on 11/29/12 at 9:13

Ben, I went to the link that you posted @ 8:51....very moving...thanks....I needed that.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 9:15

Mike, a problem I see with having a park is that many who are trying to be "off the grid" in order to avoid warrents will go there. I hear that's what happened with some of the homeless camps that existed in North Nashville. I would prefer to see us set up a programs and resources for the mentally ill and the vets. Programs that currently exist need to remain especially housing for families who are temporarily homeless.

By: BenDover on 11/29/12 at 9:16

And lack of 'limited government' can destroy the resource upon which all of your great generosity with the earnings of others depends, blanket. It's a delicate balance and I fear a growing misunderstanding about where the tipping point is does great harm to the people we both purport to wish to help.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/29/12 at 9:16

The Christian way is the budlight way. Let them go somewhere else or you can fix it. I just don't want to know about it.

By: gdiafante on 11/29/12 at 9:17

Ben, veterans put it all on the line, they, more than anyone else in this nation have earned it. I don't really see this as a should the government be involved issue. They are recruited, trained and supported by the government during their active duty, why should the government not then be responsible thereafter? This isn't about politics, it's about taking care of our own.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 9:18

Ben, I believe that there are other things that can be cut. There's a lot of pork, we give too much aid to foreign countries (Israel is a prime example) and we over spend on military (why do we still have some Cold War bases still operating?).

By: Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 9:19

Ben, I believe that there are other things that can be cut. There's a lot of pork, we give too much aid to foreign countries (Israel is a prime example) and we over spend on military (why do we still have some Cold War bases still operating?).

By: Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 9:20

Oops, sorry about the double post.

By: Blanketnazi2 on 11/29/12 at 9:23

Study finds rich people give much less to charity than poor people

A new study shows the mythical talking point of the richest individuals being the most generous, and therefore the most worthy of tax breaks, to be false. Those with lower incomes consistently donated nearly twice as much of their discretionary income, when compared to more wealthy individuals.

http://www.examiner.com/article/study-finds-rich-people-give-much-less-to-charity-than-poor-people

By: Loner on 11/29/12 at 9:27

My "value" to this posting community, if any, may be due to the fact that I do not have a "dog in the hunt" in Nashville, so to speak...no vested interests...no conflicts of interest...from here, I can see the forest, not just the trunks of the trees....I have fewer local biases...fewer assumptions...more skepticism...I am un-hobbled by local conventional wisdom...I dare to question authority.

I have been studying Nashville quite closely, since around 2004....primarily using the NCP posting community and the NCP itself...I dare say that I know more about Nashville than I do about Rochester or Buffalo,NY....yes, Nashville, TN is my cyber-home....the NCP is a great host....this is a great posting community...thank you!