Up for Debate: Holder in contempt; SCOTUS rules

Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 11:46pm

It was a busy day in Washington. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in a 5-4 decision to largely uphold the Affordable Care Act. What is your reaction to the ruling? Also, the House voted to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt for not turning over documents related to the Fast and Furious operation. Do you agree with that move? What do you think will happen moving forward?

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Up for Debate

127 Comments on this post:

By: yogiman on 6/29/12 at 3:39

I agree the House is justified in finding the AG in contempt for ignoring their request for the F & F papers, but I doubt if anything will be done to hold him responsible.

By: dargent7 on 6/29/12 at 3:47

Congress has but only one purpose right now: derail Obama's run for a 2nd term.
These putz's are compariring F & F to Watergate.....suprised they didn't throw in the Catholic Church pedophile scandal too.
Happy the court upheld the Afordable Care Act. Now, these same idiots are still saying it's "not constitutional". The Supreme Court doesn't know the constitution? They tried that sh** with Obama and the guy taught it at Harvard. Half in Congress couldn't find their ass with two hands.

By: yogiman on 6/29/12 at 4:52

When did a president get the authority to place a tax on the people, dargent7? I've always thought it was congress' responsibility to place or change taxes.

When did Obama gain the authority to overrule congress on that order?

By: dargent7 on 6/29/12 at 5:35

SCOTUS are 100x more informed, intelligent than you. If 5 justices said it's ok, then it's ok.
Bush decided to invade Iraq w/o Congressional approval. He did it by Executive Order.
Obama can't force cos. to provide health care for it's employees and insurance carriers the same?

By: yogiman on 6/29/12 at 6:02


The SC does not have the authority to set a tax on us, the US citizens. That responsibility is in the hands of our Congress, not Barry's.

If the SC have such Constitutional knowledge as you state, can you explain why there are constant 5-4 or 6-3 decisions on their findings? How many 9-0 decisions have you ever seen?

My opinion is the possibility their decision is to place the bill back under Congress' a$$ to come up with an answer during this election year.

By: dargent7 on 6/29/12 at 6:09

SCOTUS ruled 5:4 on Bush being the elected President of the USA in 2000.
You, a has been weather man 65 years ago, want to contest what the highest court in the land has to say re: the US Constitution? You for real? Your "opinion" doesn't count.
Wake up!

By: Rasputin72 on 6/29/12 at 6:28

Holder was a scalawag and a man that I would not want as a business partner long before F&F.

As for the Obama Health Care plan for the 47% who pay no federal income tax I given my advice as a board member of a company I founded 27 years ago, "The Obama health care will not be repealed." "The Obama health care plan is going to cost either the company or yourselves or both a lot of money that cannot be passed on in this competitive world" "Before you act, you must first find out how much the initial cost is going to be upon the company" "Then I have several suggestions as to how to place the burden of this additional cost upon the people who benefit from having Obama health care. "This is a cost that the company must avoid with much thought and purpose.

I would like to see this cost placed on each individual employee. "I have a plan and it will work."

By: govskeptic on 6/29/12 at 6:38

Having watched AG Holder on at least 3 times appearing before this committee,
it's no wonder they voted in favor of Contempt, not that it actually matters a
great deal! He was extremely arrogant and very evasive on every occasion.
Why shouldn't he be, he knew the President had his back all the way whether
he personally authorized this failed mission or not! The calamity of the vote
was watching yesterday's walk out on the final vote by approx. 100 democrats
lead arm in arm by former Speaker Pelosi, Maxine Waters, and Rep. Cummings
with Shelia Jackson Lee moving in and out of the prolonged camera shot!

Yes, it's partisan and political, but one with worthy enough cause to be so!

By: Loner on 6/29/12 at 6:58

Somebody reported that it was a 6-3 ruling yesterday...it was a 5-4 decision....since Kagan should have recused herself - she helped craft the law - the ruling should have been a 4-4 tie. If it were not for the fact that Elena Kagan has no detectable ethics, when it comes to recusing, the ACA ruling might still be undecided....Sotomayor was simply paying back the favor to President Obama....quid pro quo.

Justice Thomas looks like he is about to blow a gasket....the man is a bag of hate....maybe he'll snap?

As for the Holder contempt vote, it's pure politics....still, Holder should walk the plank to spare his boss the agony of firing him. Holder's chief accuser, Darrell Issa, is a former car thief and insurance fraud hustler turned politician....a thoroughly despicable man....GOP accusers are often guilty of crimes far worse than what they accuse others of..Newt Gingrich, Bill Clinton's accuser, comes to mind....Gingrich was cheating on his wife nightly and he had the caljones to attack Bill Clinton's morals....that's the Grand Old Party...the party of high hypocrisy.

By: Captain Nemo on 6/29/12 at 7:05

The three blind mice of the far right have laid in there opinion as to how the world should be run by their standards. Oh what a great world it would be if only everyone had it their way. LOL!

By: govskeptic on 6/29/12 at 7:22

Judge Roberts wasn't going to let a decision this big be a punching bag
for the court's critics, nor was he going to let a history making decision be
without his leadership opinion even if he had to fudge law and facts of
the case to get there! The law is here to stay with lots of changes by
future amendments and tweaks by administrators. Still as many
unknowns as what is actually proposed!

By: Loner on 6/29/12 at 7:35

The righties want to lynch Justice Roberts...but they never demanded that Elena Kagan recuse...I guess that the Supremes don't believe in conflicts of interest....they have compromised their own personal ethics so often over the years, they are now numb and insensitive to such things....Clarence Thomas should have recused in Bush versus Gore....the left should have demanded that Thomas recuse on that one...as I say the Supremes are blind to conflicts of interest.....no wonder that so many feel contempt for this SCOTUS....it's a gaggle of political hacks.

By: BenDover on 6/29/12 at 8:02

I've read all of the Roberts is the chess master... brilliant move to restrain the commerce clause... saving the appearance of the court... blah blah blah. I think he's simply lost his marbles or someone dug up some dirt on him.

Kagan should have recused but like that was really going to happen.

In truth he made up a defense for the law that not even the administration seriously advanced just so he wouldn't have to toss it. He is right that it's not the courts responsibility to protect the people from our bad political decisions but using this as the example case is ludicrous... this goes way beyond judicial deference.

By: yogiman on 6/29/12 at 8:15

Obama has said Obamacare isn't a tax, yet Judge Roberts says it is. Which one is right?

Constitutionally wise, Is Obama smarter than Roberts, or is Roberts smarter than Obama?

I believe that's why Roberts voted the way he did to send it back to Congress which, in my opinion, would make him Constitutionally smarter than Obama.

Obama has such an egotistical superiority frame of mind he doesn't believe he can ever be wrong.

Let's see who Congress believes.

By: Loner on 6/29/12 at 8:18

So, Ben, I gotta ask, did you use the champagne that was earmarked for the "Obamacare Decision" party at the "Holder in Contempt" party? You conservatives believe in the "waste not, want not" adage, right?

Lots of hung-over righties across the fruited plain this fine morning....some drank to remember, some drank to forget.

We leftists smoked the pipe of peace, played the djembe drums and danced around the campfire....some are sleeping in this morning....exhausted from the partying.

By: BenDover on 6/29/12 at 8:19

"some drank to remember, some drank to forget." lol.

Amen brother.

By: Loner on 6/29/12 at 8:32

I actually took my own advice yesterday...I went into the C&S Saloon around 4 pm....nice AC system and smoke free...nice young lady tending bar...couple of young men at the far end of the bar....I don't usually drink beer, but when I do, I prefer a great brew...I tried the Harpoon IPA (India Pale Ale) which they had on tap...it was the right choice...very hoppy...nice finish...ice cold too.

The saloon has at least a dozen TV sets on at all times...all jockstrap-related stuff....nobody discussed politics...it was kind of an oasis.....I had a second Harpoon....that was plenty...I left the C&S feeling like Moby Dick.

By: Rasputin72 on 6/29/12 at 8:45

LONER.........As they say, "To the victor go the spoils" To the productive class, "It costs a lot of money to be rich."

Sounds like a good afternoon for you,especially the part about "ice cold too."

I on the other hand finished a round of golf at 3:45 P.M. and went to the Men's Grill and watched the recap of the debacle that occured. Then I also did what I usually do not do and that was have two Ketel One vodka martinis with blue cheese stuffed olives. I then with tears in my eyes as big as horse turds had a friend drive me home.

By: slacker on 6/29/12 at 8:57

Translation: Rasp panhandles enough change to buy some Ripple and a bag of Fritos.
Gets drunk, and falls face-down on Church st.. A kind stranger delivers Rasp back to the downtown library.

By: producer2 on 6/29/12 at 8:57

For a party that rails on those who don't play by the rules, the GOP is a bunch of poor losers. I guess majority rules only applies to them if they win....

By: dargent7 on 6/29/12 at 9:01

I think you loud mouths out there should THINK, first, then cast aspersions.
Why would Holder purposely create this F & F campaign? To have Border Agents (1) killed? Never mind Bush I & II launched two wars killing 10's of thousands.
Why does Obama, like the Clinton's in 1990's, want Universal Health Care? To kill people?
To soak the rich? Some Socialistic, Communistic, Marxist conspiracy?
Maybe, just maybe, these people want what's best for the American people. As a whole.
Not this strata v. this strata.
And with white, rich, scum-bags in Congress, you just can't get what's right for America, done.

By: Rasputin72 on 6/29/12 at 9:05

Producer2.......A very good observation indeed! You have to remember however that people who consider themselves Republicans are not accustomed to losing very often. You don't become a Republican by having a history of losing in life, Unfortunately for the Republicans they are outnumbered and outflanked by the sheer numbers of those that must depend upon the taxes paid by Republicans.

By: Loner on 6/29/12 at 9:10

The NCP Headline used the term SCOTUS, not USSC. I don't know if that is spin or not. Perhaps, SCOTUS sounds and looks like SCROTUS or SCROTUM?

Seems like the language is evolving rapidly.

The acronym POTUS is in common use these days.

It's fair to say that "OTUS" is being used as a convenient suffix.....this could lead to acronym abuse. It won't be long before we see more of the -OTUS acronyms...let me coin a few right here, right now:

SOTUS: Senate Of The United States

HOTUS: House Of The United States

COTUS: Congress Of The United States

VPOTUS: Vice President Of The United States

FLOTUS: First Lady Of The United States

AGOTUS: Attorney General Of The United States

SGOTUS: Surgeon General Of The United States

AFOTUS: Armed Forces Of The United States

....just to throw a few out there. Jingle James wanted to be the first to abuse the new suffix....enjoy!

By: BenDover on 6/29/12 at 9:14

Roberts blew his decision. Must've been hanging around McCain and some of that 'maverick' wore off on him. Supreme Court justices are supposed to enforce the constitution. What Roberts did was dream up a defense of the law that was never seriously posed and was certainly not part of the Law's genesis as it was sold to the people. Whatever his reason it certainly did not reflect his constitutional responsibility.

By: slacker on 6/29/12 at 9:14

The Holder fiasco will disappear after the election, regardless of the outcome.
The Democrats that walked out of the chambers, would have demonstrated more maturity by staying and voting against the contempt charge. The walking out stunt is dated, and very corny.

By: BenDover on 6/29/12 at 9:16

Monica Lewinski would then be the BJOTUS.

By: BenDover on 6/29/12 at 9:19

I still can't figure out why they had the vote on Health Care day. How are they ever going to get passed the 'witch hunt' spin if the facts never get any oxygen?

"In other news today, the house voted something about some other thing"

By: Loner on 6/29/12 at 9:20

Rasp, I laughed out loud at your 9:45 post....very descriptive.

Slack, your 9:57 post re: Rasp's binge, also rated a full LOL.

Darge, "White, rich, scum-bags in Congress" has a ring to it, but it's acronym is not good: WRSBIC.....it just does not roll off the tongue....but I have to agree with your premise.

By: yogiman on 6/29/12 at 9:22

Let me throw in IOTUS, Loner. Full wording is: Idiots of The United States.

Definition: The ones who voted for an unqualified person to be president of the United States.

By: dargent7 on 6/29/12 at 9:26

Republican's don't have a history of losing in life..."
How about Richard Nixon? Resigned, humiliated.
How about G HW Bush? Lost to a Democrat.
How about GW Bush, where NO country has asked him to speak since he feft office in 2008? Stole the 1st election outright, the 2nd was a nail biter.
I will watch in sheer glee watching Romney lose Nov. 6th. Too phoney for the "people's" White House.

By: Loner on 6/29/12 at 9:28

BJOTUS certainly works for me, Ben...and I think that the GOP planners scheduled the Holder vote on the SCTOTUS ACA Decision Day so that their champagne celebration would have better odds of being called for ...odds favored at least one of the events going their way.....kind of like hedging....they lost on ACA but "won" on Holder...the champagne did not go to waste...smart...very smart.

By: Loner on 6/29/12 at 9:32

Darge, we must not forget John McCain and Sarah Palin...King and Queen of the GOP Sore Losers Club.

By: Loner on 6/29/12 at 9:32


By: yogiman on 6/29/12 at 9:38


A comment has been made Roberts has epilepsy and it was his medicine that could be the reason he made that decision.

How many people do you know where medicine affects their way of thinking, unless it's a truth serum?

I believe he had a smile on his face when he made it. I believe the intent was to turn it back to Congress to refurbish it.

As he said, part of it was a tax, yet Obama said it wasn't a tax. So which one is right? If it is a tax as claimed, and denied, only Congress has the authority to create a tax.

Maybe Judge Roberts was thinking in favor of us as the tax paying people who could rebel.

By: yogiman on 6/29/12 at 9:47

Anyone want to learn a little more about your man Obama? www.outloudopinion.com/tax/obama/ If you have iTunes you can relax and listen to articles read to you. You could relax and enjoy your booze.

By: slacker on 6/29/12 at 10:05

As I've mentioned before, in a small country with a well educated populace.. socialized medicine can work. But the U.S., with a large percentage of its citizens already receiving some type of entitlement , the numbers just don't work. Not enough folks will be paying into the system, regardless of how they try to enforce the Roberts penalty / tax.

It seems to me that tort reform, nationwide competition amongst insurance companies, and regional clinics, have the best chance for success. It will also require a surge of doctors, immigrating from other countries to service the clinics.
Many U.S. doctors will opt out, and reserve their services for the wealthy.

By: producer2 on 6/29/12 at 10:20

losing the middle is the thing they will miss the most. They are not just fighting liberals, they now have alienated many of us who are actually moderates. Republicans don't have an exclusive on making money, we all still believe in capitalism and many of us are those who pay more than others, but we are ok with that.

By: BenDover on 6/29/12 at 10:26

The profit incentive of our market underwrites the whole price controlled world. When that goes away... when we must resort to a top down centrally planned model the world will suffer substantially but won't necessarily know it because it's a problem of what could have been rather than scarcity of an existing supply... something that a market can well and quickly remedy where a bureaucracy will not.

By: producer2 on 6/29/12 at 10:44

the profit incentive is what has lead us to this point. When the insurance companies are the only ones making money at the expense of the caregivers and the public then it has to change....

By: producer2 on 6/29/12 at 10:46

Do you take issue with the portion of the Affordable Care Act that makes insurance companies spend 80% of their intake on actual care?

By: BenDover on 6/29/12 at 11:03

Who is the government to determine profits?

It's going to be moot anyway when they are forced to take on preexisting conditions prod2. Then it ceases to be insurance anymore. All insurance companies will necessarily go out of business and you guys get your single payer dream.

With the profit incentive, away too, will go surplus of supply and advancement of technology.

This top down, smarter than everyone else, Harvard teacher lounge mentality will necessarily fail and more government will be the remedy to that.

It's as predictable as the sunset. See Hayek, Mises, Friedman, et al. the economists they teach AFTER the Econ 101 and Econ 102 requirements of a Journalism, Education and Law degrees.

By: slacker on 6/29/12 at 12:01

Ben, the Republicans should have pushed harder for reasonable health care reform after Bill & Hill's plan flamed out. Bush 2 did mention some SS reform, but it faded quickly. 9/11 of course affected everything, but the Repubs. blew it.

If Obama is re-elected, government will determine a lot of things for all of us. I hope undecided voters look at Europe, and observe what uncontroled entitlement spending leads to.

Maybe Germany will bail our defaulted arses out later.. they owe us a solid.

By: BenDover on 6/29/12 at 12:33

agree slack... you were spot on with your earlier analysis of the problem too.

By: pswindle on 6/29/12 at 12:37

If I not mistaken, the Congress voted for Obamacare, and it passed with 60 votes with the help of some republicans. Just think how important this law is to the ones without health insurance. We that have insurance help pay for the ones without. This looks like a win-win for all.

By: Rasputin72 on 6/29/12 at 12:42

It is my considered opinion that small business which is the largest employer in the country has only one option to re-coup the cost incurred by the extra taxes that are going into effect 2013 and 2014. We have a very weak labor market and the end result will be lower wages in exchange for the health care plan Obama has in mind for the 47% who pay no federal income tax.

It used to be that it was the poor and disadvantaged and the worthless who always took the brunt of economic downslides. It appears now that the middle class (those working for 50,000 to $125,000 dollars a year) will be the ones who take the biggest hit in this health care debacle. The smart small business owner will have no choice than to consider this "tax" in exhange for health care a part of the U.S, cafeteria plan. The worthless and disadvantaged get health care and those working stiffs get a lower wage base.

By: dargent7 on 6/29/12 at 1:17

"..what uncontrolled entitlement spending leads to..."
Do you people, the Capitalists, realize that the beloved paradigm the USA has extolled and foist upon every Nation on planet Earth, is 100% dysfunctional and total bullshit?
We're $16.3 trillion in debt. Totally bankrupt.
And we still police the world's governments and dictate to them how they should behave.
Human right's? Yet, our Corps. rob people of their money, pensions, retirement.
Then go to the USA kangaroo courts and get off with a slap on the wrist.
America should keep it's mouth shut, gain some humility, and go among it's businesses.
And stop the war machine. It seems the only thing we do better than anyone else is to overtake governments, install our own people, and kill people.
Reminds me of the la costra nostra, he mafia.

By: BenDover on 6/29/12 at 1:45

I don't think any Repubs voted for it pswindle. There were dems who voted against it though so it was a bipartisan effort to defeat it.

By: Captain Nemo on 6/29/12 at 2:49

By: Rasputin72 on 6/29/12 at 9:45

I on the other hand finished a round of golf at 3:45 P.M. and went to the Men's Grill and watched the recap of the debacle that occured. Then I also did what I usually do not do and that was have two Ketel One vodka martinis with blue cheese stuffed olives. I then with tears in my eyes as big as horse turds had a friend drive me home.

Translation; I play a round of Putt-Putt Golf and got takeout at Fat Moe’s. Pull out the Wild Turkey I’d been saving for a special event or tragedy and passed out in the park.

By: Rasputin72 on 6/29/12 at 3:01

Captain......I love your translations. If you have never been exposed to people unlike yourself it is always difficult to believe they suddenly exist.

By: bfra on 6/29/12 at 3:23

Rasputin72 - Oh, I am sure Nemo has been exposed (as you say) to people like you many, many times. Thus his, IMO very accurate translation.