Up for Debate: Holder in contempt; SCOTUS rules

Thursday, June 28, 2012 at 11:46pm

It was a busy day in Washington. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in a 5-4 decision to largely uphold the Affordable Care Act. What is your reaction to the ruling? Also, the House voted to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt for not turning over documents related to the Fast and Furious operation. Do you agree with that move? What do you think will happen moving forward?

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Up for Debate

127 Comments on this post:

By: parnell3rd on 6/29/12 at 9:05

Yea d7 how many people were murdered as a result of watergate? Zero. How many Have been murdered as a result of fast and furious? Hundreds!
And why do you all have to bring up Bush's war's? If I remember correctly he got authority from the congress.
How many people has Pres. Obama authorized killed with out congress permission? Even US citizen's were killed. Why can't you bring up the present?
If you don't like the USA you can renounce your citizenship and move.

By: yogiman on 6/30/12 at 5:15

You are too right, parnell3rd, you see so many "problems" exposed on George Bush by such group that has gotten so impressed with the best damned lying actor I have ever seen on TV.

Is it because Barack Obama (if that's his name) has been blaming George Bush constantly since day one he usurped the office and he's convinced them so much they're will to accept anything he says?

I'll repeat my old question: How can they accept a man as their president when they don't even know who he is? You know, his birth day, his legal name and his place of birth along with all normal information on a legitimate birth certificate.

By: Loner on 6/30/12 at 5:25

Parnell claims that "hundreds" of people have been killed as a direct result of Fast & Furious....that number appears to have been pulled from out of thin air...or from the right-wing dominated airwaves.

And who is being killed? Primarily Mexican Drug gang members...all of the sudden, the right-wingers have compassion for brown-skinned, Spanish-speaking criminals I don't buy that for a minute.

What we have here is gross incompetence in the ATF...a continuation of Bush's failed war on drugs...Fast and Furious was an extension of Bush's Operation Wide Receiver. Both operations were ill-conceived and poorly executed.

If Obama had not reneged on his campaign promises, this mess would not have happened... Obama cracked down on the California Medical Marijuana Dispensaries and he tried to look like he was doing something about the drug wars in Mexico....both attempts failed; he has alienated both the left and the right on this issue.

Sadly, the Republicans have nothing positive to offer as an alternative to the Reneger-In-Chief.

By: yogiman on 6/30/12 at 6:23

I've read where two of our agents were killed and hundreds of Mexican citizens from the F & F incident. But no, I wasn't there to make the count personally.

By: producer2 on 6/30/12 at 6:55

Bend over,
I am a capitalist but when it comes to healthcare I believe there needs to be regulation. This is not homeowners or car insurance, this is a very different animal. The insurance companies are the main culprits in the current high cost of healthcare. Most do not run lean but run VERY fat causing unnecessary inflation within the system. Those who want to play will and those who don't will move on... No problem.

By: Loner on 6/30/12 at 7:24

This is an excellent article...a myth-buster...a cool-headed backgrounder and analysis of the scandal.

"The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal", By Katherine Eban; June 27, 2012: 5:00 AM ET


A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.




"Quite simply, there's a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn." (end snippet)

The federal prosecutors in Arizona are also NRA-loving gun nuts...these federal prosecutors, not the ATF are responsible for the massive flow of guns from AZ into Mexico....the prosecutors are gun-owner-friendly and gun-dealer-friendly....the sordid business of gun-running is good for the business of the gun-related industries...it's certainly good for business in Arizona....federal prosecutors in Arizona want to see that business thrive.

By: dargent7 on 6/30/12 at 8:53

Sat. 06/30
The total American body count from F & F is ONE, Border Agent Terry.
Bush I & Bush II's two, 20 year long wars in Iraq and the Mid-East = 6,400 dead Americans and countless dead Iraqi's and Afghans.
So, to the witch hunters after Holder and the Obama Adminto hang a guy on ONE, : stick it up your ass!

By: govskeptic on 6/30/12 at 9:43

Nice talk there Darge, but one shouldn't expect any less from an apologist
for "The One!" and his right hand man "The Enforcer"!

By: yogiman on 6/30/12 at 9:56

I'm afraid you're proving the education you received in college in Michigan. dargent7. You're also showing disrespect openly over the internet and disregard for the young people and ladies on this site.

By: Rasputin72 on 6/30/12 at 10:18

The villagers have gotten more free stuff. What they will never get is an understanding of why they are called villagers.

By: bfra on 6/30/12 at 10:19

yogi to d7 - You're also showing disrespect openly over the internet and disregard for the young people and ladies on this site.

HOW? Don't change the subject (your usual stance), just explain.

By: yogiman on 6/30/12 at 12:29

Give me and example, bfra.

By: yogiman on 6/30/12 at 12:37

I Re-read your concerned comment, bfra. I'm not sure I know what you mean about: "HOW? Don't change the subject (your usual substance), just explain."

For your information, I was referring to the constant vulgar language he's using on this site.

Has ethics changed that much in your way of thinking, bfra?

By: Captain Nemo on 6/30/12 at 12:42

LOL, yogi wants an example. He has illustration after illustration but he can’t see or learn anything with his head in is ass.

By: Captain Nemo on 6/30/12 at 12:43

Loner, I read your 8:24 post. I am afraid the Republicans will keep on until they cause innocent people to die from their political mud sling.

By: Captain Nemo on 6/30/12 at 12:46

I think slacker translation was the more accurate of the two. I’ll go along with his.

By: bfra on 6/30/12 at 1:40

yogi the old fart - You can't seem to understand anything simple! I showed your statement about d7 showing disrespect & disreguard, so the HOW, is explain HOW you think he is doing this. Is that simple enough? When someone says HOW, that is asking for an explanation. Got it yet?

By: yogiman on 6/30/12 at 1:46


Do you only know how to iterate what you're trying to say? How about a simple explanation, if you know what you're trying to say.

By: bfra on 6/30/12 at 1:49

Dumbbum - Since you don't understand plain English, why bother?

By: yogiman on 6/30/12 at 3:10

I understand plain English, bfra, but I have a problem understanding what you're trying to say because you don't know how to use it.

By: parnell3rd on 6/30/12 at 5:10

Okay so, Loner, Murder is okay if your a bad person? So the Cartels murdering Mexican citizens is okay with you? With guns allowed into their county by the US government.
Pulling nubers out of the air, really? Just like Washington pulls numbers out of their butts. I was being nice with the numbers it's actually in the thousands.
When Agent Brain Terry was murdered by Mexican Cartel in the USA with guns allowed to walk over the border by ATF brass, Agent Terry and his fellow agents were not allowed to fire live ammo at the bad guys. They were only allowed to have bean bag rounds loaded.

By: parnell3rd on 6/30/12 at 5:15

In June 2010, Pinal County Sherrif (Arizona) Paul Babeu informed the Dept of Homeland Securirty that parts of Arizona was under Mexican Cartel control.
The Dept of Homeland Security responded by posting signs along the roads "Travel Caution: Smuggling and Illegal Immigration May Be Encountered in This Area" These signs were placed as close as 30 miles to the capital of Arizona.
This is an outrage. What if this happens in Tennesse? What are you do good liberals going to do then? Cower in the corner?

By: parnell3rd on 6/30/12 at 5:18

But, the ironic thing is this. The most corrupt system is wanting to hold someone in contempt. They won't do a thing to the Attorney General Eric Holder. Why? Because that is politic's baby. We will slap you on the wrist because when we get caught we'll want you to go light on us.

By: yogiman on 6/30/12 at 8:13


According to history, it's about time for the USA to fold as a nation. I hope that happens by a rebellion of the people to take the control of their country back instead of the government taking the country over into dictatorship.

I don't know if these Obama lovers are DDs (dumb democrats) or not, but Barry Soetoro aka Barack Obama has made his goal plain. Anyone that favors his dictatorship don't need to worry, it's just around the corner. And don't worry, the government will "take care" of you.

But think about it, when you see so many of the people that are being influenced claiming to be Republican, it makes you wonder: Aren't they just lying?

By: pswindle on 7/1/12 at 1:24

The GOP (TeaParty) has hit an all time low. They have joined forces with McConnell of KY to go against everything that the President wants to do for the American people, but you can't fool the thinking people of this great country for too long. We know what they are doing and we are not going to take it anymore.

By: yogiman on 7/1/12 at 5:27

I believe you're supposed to provide for yourself, pswindle, unless you belong to the "gimme" clan.

If Barry succeeds in "doing" for you, you will have met your beloved dictator.

By: dargent7 on 7/2/12 at 5:09

Monday 07/02
Didn't get a new Question of the Day.
Had a chance to read Fri and Sat. posts.....
It's futile to defend yourself on this board.
F & F killed ONE American Border agent.
Do people really believe Holder and Obama purposely devised the program to kill Americans?
And you bet I'll bring up Bush's wars because they were based on LIES, bald faced and blatant.
And "mr. Wade, "google" Barack Obama and you can read pages of his bio there.
No, you won't get his college transcripts but then again where did Reagan, LBJ, Nixon go to college? I never saw any other President's B.C., either.

By: dargent7 on 7/2/12 at 5:15

The other issue Republicans are making hay over is this F & F is at the level of Watergate.
Watergate, for those with long term memory loss, was Nixon's Admin. wrought with corruption, from top to bottom.
All white men power hungry and out of control.
"Enemies List", slush funds, money transfers, cover-ups, erased tapes, and of course the break-in at Democratic Hdqtrs.
Thank God we had Woodward & Bernstein on it.
Those two would of made a better President and VP than Nixon and Agnew.

By: yogiman on 7/2/12 at 5:48


Every man that has taken over the President's office has done so for the power to control the nation and its people.

Until a few decades ago, the desire for the power was to better the USA. But no man in that office has been so secretive of himself than Barack Obama. You obviously have no idea who he is. Why is he so secretive about his past? Why has he spent so much money to keep his identity hidden?

As is known, the way he was raised, and the friends he has, should make anyone wonder how interested he is for the benefit of the USA.

Go to www.wnd.com/2010/06/166905/ and you'll see a lot on him you might not like.

Barack Obama was raised as a communist and a Muslin and he hasn't changed. So if you want to live in a communist nation, back him all the way to dictatorial power.

By: gdiafante on 7/2/12 at 5:52

I believe you're supposed to provide for yourself, pswindle, unless you belong to the "gimme" clan.

What "clan" out there isn't after a gimme? According to you, anyone that is poor is automatically an entitlement seeker. How about the middle class? Remember them? They're the dwindling class that makes our country work...they're the ones who are facing stagnant wages and rising costs. I can't believe that those freeloading middle-classers would want relief...

And how about those 1%ers...they've had tax breaks for a decade...it's still not enough...never mind that they're not following the rules, it's downright un-American to have them contribute...

Yogi, you're full of sh!t.

By: Captain Nemo on 7/2/12 at 5:56

By: yogiman on 6/30/12 at 9:13
According to history, it's about time for the USA to fold as a nation. I hope that happens by a rebellion of the people to take the control of their country back instead of the government taking the country over into dictatorship.

The failed historian yogi, wants America to fail and then he will be happy. This sick vile old fool had rather see American fail and be over run by outside forces that have a non white in office. Let’s string up the old traitor and all others like him.

By: gdiafante on 7/2/12 at 6:02

He can't have it both ways, Nemo. Either this is a vast conspiracy to end America as a free superpower, or we're at the natural end of our power.

If he was intellectually capable of looking at the numbers, he'd realize that we've been in decline for a while now. But I suppose it makes him feel better to blame it on the funny looking guy with a weird name.

By: govskeptic on 7/2/12 at 6:07

It's the board's unanimous feelings that this is a left over fault of those
two old meanies: Bush-Cheney!

By: gdiafante on 7/2/12 at 6:19

Go back another 40-50 years and then you may be on to something gov.

By: yogiman on 7/2/12 at 6:30

I've known us to be in a decline probably longer than you've been alive, gdiafarte. I've lived through 13 presidents and one usurper. How many have you lived through?

I have wondered since it happened: What if Gerald Ford wasn't a natural born citizen when he took over the President's office as the next in line Speaker of the House? What would have happened. Would the Constitution have been amended to a point that would make Barack Obama legally eligible for the office?

Ronald Reagan made a speech on World Communist. Maybe you should read it. I'm sure you guys know how to get a copy of it.

It's still hard for me to understand how anyone can accept a president of their nation who refuses to identify himself.

You better wake up guys. If you would go back and see how many in office have worked on the move toward One World Government, it might make you open you eyes. Unless you're in favor of it.

By: yogiman on 7/2/12 at 6:44

I've posted it before, but I'm posting it again. There's 20 members of the GOP (RINOs) that have agreed to the LOST (Laws Of the Sea Treaty) bill which means turning the seas over to the United Nations. They can then collect taxes on the use of the Seas and Oceans and control the routes.

Lamar Alexander and Bob Corker are to of the 20.

By: Loner on 7/2/12 at 6:47

So, where is the new UFD board? This one has been debated as nauseum.

Sometimes the NCP puts up a new board later in the day....let's hope that this is the case today.

I had a great time at the "Six Hours At The Glen" race for Daytona Protoptypes and GT cars...at Watkins Glen, NY...took my grandson and his buddy....you can watch a road race on TV, but there is nothing like being there....the FRAAAAP-FRAAAAP...the WAAAAAAH......the snap, crackle and pop...the ground trembles when the field passes by.....the smell of hi-octame exhaust gasses mixed with vaporized rubber....and then there is the crowd...the action in the pits....the festive spirit in the air.....long live motor racing!

By: yogiman on 7/2/12 at 7:17

So that's your problem, Loner, breathing too much racer's exhaust gasses. And its causing too many burps instead of coming out properly.

By: Rasputin72 on 7/2/12 at 7:27

Gdiafante..........I have some degree of empathy for your 6:52 post.....For my future reference and guidance I wonder if you would be willing to tell me what your financial defintion of middle class might be. This reqiest is not meant to be barbed in any way. I think the defintion of middle class is changing.

I know this. Middle class as I thought of middle class is totally different today than when I was growing up.,

Middle class was a working family of one or two providers, A home,an automobile, good clothes for children, a vacation annually,a savings account even if modest. A retirement future through your employer,an ability to either send or help your children through college. Perhaps eat out once or twice a month. Christmas and birthday presents for the children. An allowance for the kids and perhaps a movie once or twice a month for the husband and wife.

By: Loner on 7/2/12 at 7:43

This board is stale and smells of troll droppings...see ya later!

By: gdiafante on 7/2/12 at 7:50

Rasp, the definition is changing. Would you consider someone who makes (either singly or combined) $40K annually as middle class? That's around the median income (maybe $47K or something).

I really don't care about what they have, because they should have more then they can afford. That's how a credit-based economy works. The problem now is that people have had enough. If they were in over their head, they're paying off debt now instead of creating new debt. That's not good for our economy.

In the past, people could go get a new car, house, boat, etc, because they could pull equity out of their home. Not anymore. So they're pulling back.

That's how you can have someone who makes $20K a year, which should NOT be considered middle class, as having what historically would be middle class "luxuries".

By: gdiafante on 7/2/12 at 7:53

And by the way, the reason we're a credit-based economy is because of the stagnant wages. People have less discretionary income, so they fall pray to preditory lenders who offer easy credit.

Just as the government likes to borrow, eventually, you have to pay the piper or the house of cards comes tumbling down.

By: Rasputin72 on 7/2/12 at 8:02

Gdiafante, That is a very well thought out explanation. I can see why you and I agree on some matters and disagree on others. I had a sociology professor in college debate me on personal philosophy. He correctly argued that every single human being would develop a philosophy of life no matter how poor or how intellectually deficient or even how indifferent towards education and philosophy he or she may appear, A philosphy of life is as much a part of human existence as is the need for food and water.

Thanks for your input. Your philosphy is as good as anyone elses.

By: yogiman on 7/2/12 at 8:03

You must have come into this world a few years after me, Rasputin72. My childhood was in the days of depression. Only the men [who could]; worked. The women stayed home and raised their children. And ironically, those families seemed to be able to have more children than today. And children raised by their parents are much different than the children raised by baby sitters or homes where they're dropped of on your way to work and picked up on your way home.

And remember, the depression wasn't over until we got into WWII when a defense industry took off like rabbit being shot at.

By: dargent7 on 7/2/12 at 8:11

Reagan was a Hollywood "B" actor, who's claim to fame was 'Bedtime with Bonzo".
You know the one...he slept with a chimpanzee in a bed and talked to it.
What if Obama did something like that?
Oh, he does, he tries to talk to Congress.

No women post here, not because of rude language or swearing, but because of the insipid, constant drone from "yogi-man".
"Who is he?...Why hasn't he identified himself...?" "What's his real name.."?
You're 85 years old...Obama at 50 doesn't need to explain himself to you.
His resume and bio are available to anyone who cares to read, learn, and know.
On the other hand, racist pigs just continue with the same ole- same ole. All you've got is explicit ignorance.

By: Captain Nemo on 7/2/12 at 8:18

What if Gerald Ford wasn’t a natural born citizen when he took over the President office...

Translation; What am I talking about?

By: bfra on 7/2/12 at 8:20

d7 - Don't forget Bush1 "No new taxes", he forgot to add, until he got elected. Then Bush2, "bring'em own", Mission Accomplished in his zoot suit & where is Bush? He is clearing brush on his ranch, more times than he was in the WH.

By: Captain Nemo on 7/2/12 at 8:27

Yon can’t teach an old yogi (FOOL) new tricks when he never learned any to start with.

By: bfra on 7/2/12 at 8:32

Nemo - I agree! From his comments, he has got to be the dumbest person on this earth!

By: bfra on 7/2/12 at 8:34

Did anyone ever see a report of how much Bush's Mission Accomplished fiasco cost the taxpayers?