Up for Debate: Holder on the hot seat

Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 10:05pm

News came Wednesday that a U.S. House committee recommended in a partisan vote to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress for not providing certain documents regarding the botched "Fast and Furious" weapons trafficking sting operation. The full House is expected to vote on the issue next week. Do you agree with the move to take such action against Holder? What you do think of President Obama's assertion of executive privilege over the files?

139 Comments on this post:

By: Loner on 6/21/12 at 2:55

A contempt of court citation? If this had happened under Bush-Cheney the roles of the two major parties would be reversed...the Democrats would be calling for blood, instead of the Republicans.

It's all political theater designed to embarass the sitting president in an election year...nothing more and nothing less......end of story.

By: dargent7 on 6/21/12 at 4:11

Seems a single border agent was directly killed by a gun traced to "Fast and Furious".
Bush & Cheney launch two wars that killed 6,400 US soldiers and thousands of Iraqis and Afghans.
Holder hasn't provided "certain documents"?
Where's the CIA documents stating with certainty Saddam had WMD's?
It's a Republican witch hunt designed to embarass the Obama Admin.

By: Captain Nemo on 6/21/12 at 4:14

It will be a fun read to see what our right-wing crazy have to say about this

By: Captain Nemo on 6/21/12 at 4:16

By: budlight on 6/20/12 at 5:30
yogiman on 6/20/12 at 12:21
I see where Obama has invoked executive privilege for the first time since usurping office in the "Operation Fast and Furious" in an 11th hour decision on that gun deal with the drug industry in Mexico.

What a surprise. To hell with Eric Holder, Barry doesn't think he should get involved.

Obama will throw Holder under the bus. Just watch. And I hope Holder goes to jail, but he won't.
new
By: BenDover on 6/20/12 at 6:32
Holder's got dirt all the way to the top. Otherwise he'd already have a big tire-track across his back.

By: yogiman on 6/21/12 at 5:00

To answer the question; "Do you approve...?", yes, Holder has been in contempt since the day he went into office.

By: gdiafante on 6/21/12 at 5:10

It's a conspiracy...the aliens that landed in Roswell are building a new spacecraft in order to go home. The border agent was killed by a rogue alien that was trying to send a message to another alien civilization to attack us. Holder, like all AG's since Truman, are bound to secrecy. The GOP, think that an interstellar war would be just the thing to get them elected, so they want this to come out.

By: dargent7 on 6/21/12 at 5:27

"Can't Buy Me Love"...but how about a Hawaiian Island?
How's it possible for a person be able to buy an a USA island?
Ellison bought Lana'i for $600. million. Who gets the money?
So, will Gates buy Key West?
Now, the US is selling off properties.

By: gdiafante on 6/21/12 at 5:32

When we speak of the 1% owning the country, it's to be taken literally.

I say, we privatize Tennessee, too. That's what we need, not a country, but 50 separate businesses under one huge umbrella, USA, Inc.

Hell, we're practically there anyway...

By: dargent7 on 6/21/12 at 5:55

What's to stop someone from buying Catalina Island or San Padre Island?
Or, Key West, Marathon Key, or Key Largo.
Jimmy Buffet could buy Key Largo with just a year's royalities.
Who signed off on this lana'i transaction?
Who gets the money? Lump sum or is the Oracle guy making payments thru a bank.
In the old days, Marlon Brando bought an island in Fiji.
Never in America.

By: Rasputin72 on 6/21/12 at 6:06

Eric Holder represents everything that I hold in contempt. Having said that I refer all other readers to the comments made by LONER at 3:55 A.M.

You have everything you need to know about this incident and this man and his boss Barack Hussein Obama. This is nothing. Eric Holder will continue to undermine a 200 year culture in this country. He will do it successfully and if he desires will be there for another four years as the 47% who pay no federal income tax wreek their vengence and contempt for those that live the good life.

By: gdiafante on 6/21/12 at 6:08

He bought 98% of the island...which has been losing money...it's only about 140 square miles...

By: gdiafante on 6/21/12 at 6:09

The word is wreak, Raspy Warbucks...

By: gdiafante on 6/21/12 at 6:16

who pay no federal income tax wreek their vengence and contempt for those that live the good life.

Maybe you have a fear that the barbarians are at the gate, or maybe you just are the clueless, wannabe aristrocrat you come across as, but people aren't upset that they don't get "the good life", they're upset because the fix is in.

Here's the new American dream: unless you have the incredible luck to be born into old money, or the fantastic luck to be one of the very small percentage of people who hit a gold mine, you're life will be having to borrow ungodly amounts of money just to get an average education that will get you a mediocre job where wages are stagnant, benefits are scarce and costs keep rising.

Maybe you should re-read American history...this country wasn't founded to be the playground for the rich and famous.

By: govskeptic on 6/21/12 at 6:30

So, it appears the AG may have lied about when he knew about this operation
that had the original intent of attempting some degree of gun control through making
it appear the US had lots to do with Drug Wars by supplying guns. If we ever
get there, evidence might show the Fast & Furious may have even started with
him!. The committee is only asking for some document generated after Feb
2011, which is the date Eric Holder has now clarified that he learned of it's
existence. He's has called on "The Boss" to help me, help me, they are going
to put this thing on me personally!

Personally, I'm much more concerned about the leaks on National Security
secrets that appear to have come from this White House. Mr. Holder is
stonewalling that as well by appointing an Assistant that donated $4,200.
to the 2008 Obama campaign to do the investigating! What a government?

By: dargent7 on 6/21/12 at 6:37

Lana'i is home to two championship golf courses. One designed by Jack Nickalous and one by Greg Norman. Manele Bay and Lodge at Kohele.
The Four Seasons is there. Only the 2nd of 2, 4 Diamond Resorts in Hawai'i.
Try booking a room this week...all sold out.
Trilogy Sailing Excursions and Paragon have a bases there as well as countless rafting adventures/ dolphin watching. Dolphins particularly are fond of the island.
Shipwreck Beach is the site of a WW II tanker run ashore.
It's only 45 minutes from Lahaina, Maui.
No way, "the Island is losing money".
The "money crowd" Hollywood celebrities, prefer the isolated destination that has all the amenities
Yes, I worked there.

By: dargent7 on 6/21/12 at 6:41

Back to reality...this is the 1st "Executive Order" issued by Obama. Since Reagan, there have been 24 by US Presidents. Hardly a precedent.
So, you yapping Republicans: put this one into it's proper context.
Then, head out to Walmart and stock up on some "Magic Underware" in the unlikely event Romney win's Nov. 6th.

By: gdiafante on 6/21/12 at 6:43

Darge, I'm just repeating what I read, about the island losing money. I would find it hard to believe too. I've been to the islands (though a long time ago) it was expensive back then, can only imagine it now.

By: gdiafante on 6/21/12 at 6:44

It's politics, Darge. Anything that Obama does will be considered the next step in the self-coronation of King Obama I.

The GOP has short memories...it could be brain damage, I wouldn't be suprised.

By: Loner on 6/21/12 at 6:48

The President's main accuser is Darrell Issa; a man who was involved with more than one car theft and was suspected of insurance fraud in more than one incident....he miraculously escaped serving any prison time for his series of crimes.

Issa is a Republican scumbag; read the details of this creeps "resume" here:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/01/24/110124fa_fact_lizza?currentPage=3

Snippet: Many politicians have committed indiscretions in earlier years: maybe they had an affair or hired an illegal immigrant as a nanny. Issa, it turned out, had, among other things, been indicted for stealing a car, arrested for carrying a concealed weapon, and accused by former associates of burning down a building.

If anyone should be sitting in a prison cell for their crimes, it is Darrel Issa; not Eric Holder.....the GOP once again illustrates its high hypocrisy....the GOP is now the scofflaw party.

By: producer2 on 6/21/12 at 6:57

Actually according to reports this morning Bush the 2nd issued 171 orders in his first term....

By: Loner on 6/21/12 at 7:09

Bush the Younger exploited the post 9-11 panic; he used the nation's fear as a a tool to usurp Executive power from the Legislative Branch. The Republicans were big cheerleaders for the "wartime" power grab at the time. Now that a black Democrat is the POTUS, they are now having remorse for the wholesale power giveaway.

Since the Global War on Terror will never be concluded, the Executive power grab is here to stay....we can thank the "small government", "limited government" Republican Party for this major shift in the federal power pyramid...they must have thought that only Republican Presidents would or could use the increased Presidential Authority....the fools!

By: Loner on 6/21/12 at 7:17

If there were true justice in this country, Darrell Issa would have been convicted of several felonies...he would not be eligible to vote and he would probably be disqualified from holding public office...as it turns out, he's now a powerful Republican Congressman and the President's main accuser.....what a country!

But then again, Issa's Congressional District has been gerrymandered in such a way that his seat is absolutely safe....and there seems to be no sentiment for a recall....his District must be just as corrupt and self-serving as he himself is.....what a District!

And the Republican Party is highly enamored of this Issa character....what a Party!

By: budlight on 6/21/12 at 7:28

dargent7 on 6/21/12 at 5:11
Seems a single border agent was directly killed by a gun traced to "Fast and Furious".
Bush & Cheney launch two wars that killed 6,400 US soldiers and thousands of Iraqis and Afghans.
Holder hasn't provided "certain documents"?
Where's the CIA documents stating with certainty Saddam had WMD's?
It's a Republican witch hunt designed to embarass the Obama Admin.

"a single border agent was directly killed". So, what do you mean by that? Was his life worth anything? Maybe not to you, but to his family. And they are suing. I hope they win because he did not have to die at the hands of the US Gov-ment (giving guns to criminals).

And this is not Obama's first executive order. His first order was the 2nd day he was in office and it had to do with killing innocent babies - abortion - planned parenthood. So please, get your facts straight.

By: BenDover on 6/21/12 at 7:37

It seems this thing was authorized from the top and was intended to create a crisis for which there would be a new necessity clamp down on guns.

Holder must've covered his @$$ pretty well in the matter because otherwise there'd be bus tracks running across his back right now. Obama's use of Executive privilege in the matter will finally bring some attention by the average citizen as the media that has been trying to ignore it will now be forced to take note.

Napoletano's crew is involved in it too as they were taking credit for these misguided efforts early on in the process. Funded with $10M in stimulus dollars too... lol... you can't make this stuff up.

I suspect Obama has promised pardons in exchange for the stonewalling and was hoping to run out the clock.

When Nixon lied, about the rogue group of bungling burglars who were trying to steal the Democrat's little black book of prostitutes from the Watergate offices, no one died.

By: Loner on 6/21/12 at 7:38

In Darrell Issa's defense, I must point out one possible saving grace....he accepted just $250 from the Israel Lobby in the past election cycle; only one other Congressman accepted anything less...one brave guy received zero from that lobby...here's the source:

http://maplight.org/us-congress/interest/J5100/view/all

It is surprising that Issa, with his Arab ancestry, has not been targeted by AIPAC.....Issa's voting record is largely pro-Israel, however....he must be doing it out of genuine Zionist zeal.....not the money.

Here is a snippet from a fawning puff piece written by an Issa admirer:

"Darrell and I first met after his failed U.S. Senate race in 1998, but I started to take a greater interest in him when he became a Congressman in 2001. The Jewish community, as well as the pro-Israel lobby group AIPAC, had a problem with him because of his perceived positions on Israel. The Jewish Forward, a national publication, thought he was a Muslim. I decided that it was time to start asking some questions.

It turns out that everybody had it wrong. Darrell is a Lebanese Christian by background who grew up in Cleveland Heights, Ohio 10 minutes from where I did. We were born less than a month apart. He has two siblings married to Jews, and jokingly referred to himself as a “Shabbos Goy,” which is a term for a Gentile who assists Jews with tasks from which they are restricted on the Jewish Sabbath. I found Darrell to be an extremely sharp person, capable of grasping the big picture as well as the details – a combination rarely found in elected officials on either side of the aisle. We have developed a strong friendship, and both of my children have worked as summer interns in his Washington office." (End of Snippet)

Source:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2777143/posts

There you have it...Issa has not been targeted by AIPAC because he is a self-described “Shabbos Goy,”, which is a term for a Gentile who assists Jews with tasks from which they are restricted on the Jewish Sabbath.

And he works for the state of Israel for a token $250 fee.....what a patriot!

By: Loner on 6/21/12 at 7:48

Fast & Furious, had it been a success, would now have many "fathers" claiming paternity for the idea...since it is a dismal failure, it is now a bastard child.....we will have to do some DNA testing to find the culprit dad....was it Obama? Or is the malignant issue actually a son of a Bush?

Fast & Furious is now looking like Hasty & Foolish....that was always Junior Bush's style....was the original plan a Bush idea?

By: BenDover on 6/21/12 at 7:49

As with everything in this administration there has been much effort to blame Obama's predecessors for his current ills. This knee jerk spin factory is usually good enough for those who want to live in self delusion and continue to believe Obama really is the messiah they were sold by the media in '08.

Here's a pretty good run-down of the differences in an earlier failed ATF program during the Bush years and the debacle of Fast and Furious... with a link to Holder recanting his earlier comparison between the programs.

http://reasonedpolitics.blogspot.com/2012/02/wide-receiver-vs-fast-and-furious.html

By: gdiafante on 6/21/12 at 7:50

This must be national conspiracy day...the tin foil hats are out in full force.

By: govskeptic on 6/21/12 at 7:53

Loner: Don't be too hard on Israel-they manufacturer and supply our "Glocks!"

By: Loner on 6/21/12 at 7:56

Bush the Younger spawned the closely related "Operation Wide Receiver" idea....Fast & Furious came out of the same offices....the ill-conceived plan was well underway when Obama took the Oath of Office in January, 2009.

Was Fast & Furious a delayed action time bomb left behind by the outgoing Bush Administration? Eric Holder may have been blind-sided...sand bagged by the Bushites....smells like a set up to me.

By: Loner on 6/21/12 at 7:59

They manufacture our foreign policy too, govskeptic....you are right, we must not be too hard on them...we owe them so much.

By: BenDover on 6/21/12 at 8:00

At best this is a failed government program conceived and executed with what amounts to criminal negligence; where at least one boarder patrol agent has been killed and in which hundreds of Mexican nationals have been murdered.

In the worst case it originated with a political motivation of creating a crisis that would advance a gun control agenda.

Since there was no effort to track the guns to the cartels in Mexico (the supposed goal of the program) and no coordination with the Mexican officials it would seem to be a program with the intention of failure.

By: yogiman on 6/21/12 at 8:01

I will continue my argument there should be a limit as to where a candidate should be permitted to receive campaign money. Once a person gets elected, they've pretty well got an unlimited supply by businesses to hold their seat and they can pretty well be set for a career, whether they're honest or crooked politicians.

Tenure in Congress should not be a career.

By: BenDover on 6/21/12 at 8:03

You are absolutely wrong in this case loner. You have consumed an over-dose of their spin.

Please check my link.

In the words of our esteemed Vice President, Joe Biden. "this is a big f*cking deal".

By: Loner on 6/21/12 at 8:09

An incoming AG has a lot on his/her plate...it must be an awesome task. The AG is only as good as his/her staff is.

Considering the shape the nation was in when Bush & Cheney rode off into the sunset, the Obama Administration had other pressing issues to deal with...the War on Drugs was trumped by the need to get the economy up & running again and to somehow conclude two ill-advised shooting wars started by Obama's predecessors.

Fast & Furious was not a major news item at the time....it was Bush's secret plan...he left it behind.... it was then largely ignored by Holder et al. they must have considered it as unfinished Bush business. Holder should have nipped the plan as it was budding...he blew it....and I'm sure that he knows that now.

By: gdiafante on 6/21/12 at 8:10

Please check my link.

Hey...this is a family forum...

By: Moonglow1 on 6/21/12 at 8:11

Moonglow1: D Issa from California is another rich guy ALEC robot posturing for an Obama take down. Instead of "doing what he was elected to do" he is an ALEC-installed piece of crap debasing the political office he holds. These politicians are for themselves-enriching themselves using public money and influence to buy stock, IPO's, etc. The issue with Holder is nothing more than theater. Perhaps Fox News will benefit from increased ratings. Gag, Gag, vomit!!

By: dargent7 on 6/21/12 at 8:13

Only a Republican, a Christain Conservative type, can equate the single Border agent being killed to two disasterous wars costing over 1 trillion dollars. Use your brain. You think Holder and Obama conspired to have Border agents killed?
Whereas, to a 5th grader, Bush & Cheney conspired to bomb, invade, and occupy a foreign country!
Yeah, 6,400 dead = 1 dead Border agent.
The Operation: Iraqi Freedom and the CIA's WMD's makes The Pentagon Papers read like Reader's Digest or People magazine.
The Republican mind-set is a disorder.

By: Moonglow1 on 6/21/12 at 8:17

Moonglow1: It was all started by the war criminals Bush & Cheney & Rumnsfeld-thugs and crooks.
Where Obama went wrong is "being nice. ". He should have ripped those tea baggers apart.
The US defense industry fueled Mexico's drug crisis. Obama should stand up to Lockheed and others who suck up our tax dollars to keep wars going

By: yogiman on 6/21/12 at 8:20

The government "of the people" doesn't exist any more, BenDover. We now have a government for the government. To hell with the people.

The near future is going to be interesting. How much longer will there be a "United States"?

By: Moonglow1 on 6/21/12 at 8:22

Moonglow1: These poor Nashville repubs-they believe anything Fox News tells them to believe. This is not the repub party of old. This is a party bought and paid for by ALEC. Problem is- you can't see how you are being manipulated.
You should "detox" from Fox. No watching them. Your brains may reconstitute and gain more cells.

By: BenDover on 6/21/12 at 8:25

In Holder's own words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1G5x0XmNiA#t=2m30s

You guys are just repeating White House spin. Do they send it directly to your e'mail in box or do you get it filtered through MSNBC?

By: Kosh III on 6/21/12 at 8:34

If you want real AG malfeasance, just look back to GOP John Mitchell.

This is all politics, more attempts to undermine the legitimate government so that the fascists in the GOP(and some Democrats) and the corporations can finish their sub rosa putsch.

By: Rasputin72 on 6/21/12 at 8:35

Gdiafante...........There is much truth to your post of 7:16.....There are also a lot of assumptions on your part that are simply not true. I needed some crip courses in college and wound up with a minor in history. If your think the founding fathers of this country were ordinary off the street citizens you could not be further from the truth. Virtually alll were aristocrats of the very highest order.

I agree that the United States was not created as a playground for the rich and famous but it was not created as a welfare and public assistance state either. It was created to give every man an equal chance. What you do not understand that in life and human existence is that some people for a myriad of reasons are more equal than others. They will always inherit the earth whether in the United States, India,Russia,China or Ecuador.

You are 100% correct in that those born without a mental or financial grubstake have a very tough row to hoe. You can blame both democrats and republicans for this. Since 1945 our government has slowly but surely given away the hard earned advantage that my father and your father or grandfather gave their lives for.

We rebuilt Europe and Japan. We allowed free trade on our end to this country while being denied free trade. We created a business climate that made American made goods uncompetitive in a world market. We created a country that has more lawyers per capita by far than any other country in the world and elected these charlatans to every public office in the land. We, the people allowed our governmental representatives to create a fiefdom for themselves in Washington that puts their own welfare ahead of the union itself....These people are democrats and republicans.

There will be nothing done to change this before some type of insurrection is afoot.

The middle class that you knew and I knew is gone. There are haves and have nots and never the twain shall meet.

By: Loner on 6/21/12 at 8:39

I read the link that you posted, Ben. The conclusion does not follow from the premises given. The idea that the operation was designed to fail, so that more gun control legislation in the US would ensue is quite absurd.

Your source actually confirms my point that the same offices hatched both Wide Receiver and Fast & Furious....when Holder became AG, those offices were staffed by loyal Bushites...that staff failed to advise and alert the incoming AG properly, IMO.

I agree that both plans were quite stupid in every respect...both plans backfired...and both plans were conceived by the same people...the planning was all done well before President Obama was sworn in.

Eric Holder was sworn in as AG on February 3, 2009.

The ATF was "gun walking" guns to the Mexican drug cartels since 2006....Operation Wide Receiver.

Same cast of supporting characters for both WR & F&F operations.

Holder was in charge in November, 2009, when the F&F guns started to flow into the hands of the Mexican banditos...Holder was asleep at the wheel?

Snooze? Ya lose, Eric.

The question remains: Was this corruption or ineptitude?

Even if we do locate the idiot who conceived of this operation, that will not undo the harm done...hopefully, we will learn something from all this.

By: dargent7 on 6/21/12 at 8:41

So, we've got a name and a face of the Border patrol agent killed. Brian Terry.
All of a sudden, out of the blue, Republicans are screaming it was a White House contrived conspiracy.
One guy died in the line of duty.
His parents are now on FOX's payroll, extolling his virtues.
How about the 6,400 dead shipped back to the US in a cargo plane without their names being mentioned, no photos taken, and/ or exploited?
This Nation, once great, is F****.
It's partisian politics, straight down the line, like a NFL football game.
Whomever gains the most points, by any means necessary, wins.

By: yogiman on 6/21/12 at 8:41

Kosh III,

We have two parties in the USA in name only. I believe history says a nation will collapse after about a couple of centuries. Well, we're almost a quarter of a century past our nation's founding. Get ready for the collapse.

By: pswindle on 6/21/12 at 8:44

This is the same Issa tht started the petition to remove Gray Davis of CA from office. He wanted the job of governor, but Arnold was voted in, and you know how that went. The one that needs to be investigated is Issa himself. He has been corrupt for many years. If nothing else he needs to be in investigated in how he obtained all of his land and wealth in CA. He is one mean dude.

By: yogiman on 6/21/12 at 8:47

I read where Mr. Obama's spending is growing "exponentially" in Kenya meaning they're throwing billions into Kenya.

Wish they could throw a few billion over to Tennessee. Sure would help on our property taxes.

By: BenDover on 6/21/12 at 8:47

Not since the Dutch Tulip Mania Bubble has the world seen such wide-spread and willful self-delusion as the with Obama droids. Hundreds... maybe even thousands have been killed because of a program that is at best a criminal level of incompetence and you guys want to sweep it under the rug because some white republicans are criticizing black democrats.