Up for Debate: Immigration

Sunday, July 10, 2011 at 11:49pm

Immigration issues — related to both legal and illegal immigrants — continue to garner headlines. Locally, some folks feel the Tennessee Immigrant and Refugee Rights Coalition is too lenient with its approach. In contrast, others contend various members of the state legislature are too strict regarding the matter, assuming an almost "Arizona-like" intolerance. What is your take?

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: immigration | TIRRC

41 Comments on this post:

By: govskeptic on 7/11/11 at 5:44

Let's either adopt them all as is the present policy, or annex Mexico as the 51st State!
A large chunk of their population is already here and recent survey in Mexico
concluded another 40% would like to move here. That has nothing to do with
the other 180+ countries that have many citizens wishing to come here!

By: serr8d on 7/11/11 at 7:01

Oh! I put this comment out on the main article. I'll put it here too.

If you missed it, this Quroz-Salate charmer was arrested for molesting a 9-yo child. He'd already been deported, and popped back up in Tennessee like one of our springtime dandeions.

These two quotes, taken together...

"In a press release regarding the arrest, Gallatin police reported that Quroz-Salate likes Tennessee and the U.S. because “people get things for free here."

and

"“Basically, I know Obama has the power to stop the deportation not just for me but for the people that’s going through the same situation,” she said."

...are damning indictments of Democrats and their 'open-door' policy, lawless immigration policy. This young gal has no clue that her appeal to Obama for amnesty has pointed a finger at the Democratic party's motivations by tacitly promising to vote for them...if they let her stay.

And Quroz-Salate, with his less-than-helpful (to Democrats) 'keep giving me my free lunch, Democrats! I'll keep you in POWAH~!' also tends to damn LeftLibProggs.

I'd say give both of these expedited deportations. And if we see Quroz-Salate back here again, shoot him on sight.

(Well, on reflection, that might be a bit harsh. We should probably do to him what we should do to any child molester: throw him in prison with a bunch of rock-hardened grim-faced murderous criminals, and issue all of them Viagra.)

By: budlight on 7/11/11 at 7:03

Why not just let them go back to Mexico and make Mexico a better country? After all, itsn't that why they are here? To make America a better country?

By: Kosh III on 7/11/11 at 7:06

Let's have another amnesty like Reagan.
Or push for the Immigration bill John McCain sponsored in 2007.

It's neither left nor right, it's all about outlaw businesses who want cheap labor and a way to illegally avoid paying taxes.
Why doesn't Immigration sweep down Belle Meade Blvd checking the status of all the maids and landscapers and construction workers? You know the answer as well as I do.

By: serr8d on 7/11/11 at 7:09

govtgskeptic, you might be on to something. Physically, this continent is at it's narrowest at the Isthmus of Panama (some 33 miles wide). We should seize all the way down to there; put up a Great Wall just the other side of the canal; clean up the naasty Mexican drug cartels - local politics, make 'em all learn English, and call the new State...

(wait for it)

Aztlan.

But in order for it to work, there would be no 'citizen' of that new State eligible for "Golden Streets" entitlements. We'd probably have to take our citizens off of the same entitlements too, just to make it fair. It'd take a few generations, but in the end we'd all be better off for it: a strong, defensible southern border, and the Canadians shaking in their knickers, afraid to pipe up a squeak... )

By: serr8d on 7/11/11 at 7:14

There are jobs these spoiled rotten Americans won't do anymore. That's the reason for the 'Belle Meade maids and gardeners', and why Hispanics are found cutting the heads and body parts off of chickens at Tyson.

We, as a nation, have become too good to do for ourselves.

Something tells me there will be CHANGE to that coming soon enough. The ones who survive the cull will be stronger and meaner, but more like the original Americans than the puffy sorts we find strutting and bitching about their 'lot in life' today.

By: judyboodo@yahoo.com on 7/11/11 at 7:20

Serr8d, that's a very harsh view. He should be given a fair trial before he is shot.

By: Kosh III on 7/11/11 at 7:36

" but more like the original Americans than the puffy sorts we find strutting and bitching about their 'lot in life' today."

Original Americans? You mean the Cherokee, Aztec, Kumeyaay etc whom YOUR ancestors probably murdered and then stole their land from? Yes, more of these good "Christian" values.

By: judyboodo@yahoo.com on 7/11/11 at 7:45

No, Kosh, current thinking regarding the "original American's" is that Asian's that came across the Bearing Straights land bridge referred to as the Clovis people were the "original Americans". They were probably murdered by your Cherokee's, Aztec's, Kumeyaay etc. Nobody owns the land we all just have temporary control for a while.

By: budlight on 7/11/11 at 7:54

judyboodo@yahoo.com on 7/11/11 at 7:45
No, Kosh, current thinking regarding the "original American's" is that Asian's that came across the Bearing Straights land bridge referred to as the Clovis people were the "original Americans". They were probably murdered by your Cherokee's, Aztec's, Kumeyaay etc. Nobody owns the land we all just have temporary control for a while.

Yep, Judy. I've always said that we don't own our bodies, they are just on "loan from God" for a while.

American Indians did their fair share of killing, raping and plundering each other's tribes as well. Man-kind, regardless of race/nationality is going to be held accountable based on their actions towards each other and towards God. We're all guilty of something. I wish we could all just work together for the betterment and stop bashing each other (myself included as I'm not perfect either).

Kosh, the "kingdom" is within each one of us. "Good christian values" are a good thing, but you must never forget that people are human and subject to fail at times. No one said that being a christian makes one perfect. We are merely in a perfecting state of being - a work in progress.

Have a nice day Kosh.

By: Kosh III on 7/11/11 at 8:00

Judy
It's "Bering Strait" and your point is correct except that there was about 13000 years between the Clovis culture and the Cherokee and up to 90% of the population of the Americas died within 50 years after the arrival of Columbus and other "Christians."

Syd
Way too many DON''T bother to work on it.

By: judyboodo@yahoo.com on 7/11/11 at 8:20

True, but a lot of the death's were infection based. The amount of time that it took the "original inhabitants" or their next of kin descendents to be wiped out by some other culture is irrelevant, only that a lot of this behavior took place way before the Europeans got here. Quit trying to pin the American Indian's descent from power on this continent to the horrible scourge from across the great water.

By: tomba1 on 7/11/11 at 8:27

If they a'int legit,
you can't acquit.

.... unless you're in Florida.

By: serr8d on 7/11/11 at 8:46

Original Americans? You mean the Cherokee, Aztec, Kumeyaay etc whom YOUR ancestors probably murdered and then stole their land from? Yes, more of these good "Christian" values.

If you're going to be a damned atheist who believe in evolution and all of that, then you'd better realize that you are but an animal, and subject to the social (as well as biological) 'survival of the fittest' rule. We came, we saw, we conquered. We were better armed, more advanced technologically speaking, and we took what we wanted. That's the way things work in the animal world.

I 'invented' a new bumper sticker this weekend...(h/t Francis Bacon, inventor of the Scientific Method)

“Without God, Humans are but Animals.”

Francis Bacon...

"They that deny a God destroy man's nobility; for certainly man is of kin to the beasts in his body; and, if he be not of kin to God by his spirit, he is a base and ignoble creature.”

That's right, you atheist animals. We've but a thin veneer of civilization that separates us from the ravages of natural selection. Keep pressing the 'looter-moocher' LeftLibProgg demands until it all collapses, and you'll find things no so much to you liking, I'll warrant.

By: serr8d on 7/11/11 at 8:52

I read a comment at this new report yesterday...

http://news.yahoo.com/geithner-says-hard-times-continue-many-150523958.html

that sent shivers...

Bring it. I’m praying for anarchy to reign. There’s ACLU members, leftwing “journalists”, Hollywood communists, and communist politicians that will likely suffer from lead poisoning.

Sheesh. There's much angst and anger in this little Republic, it seems.

By: yogiman on 7/11/11 at 9:08

Ever since this nation has been put together by our founders it has been brought forth by its citizens and legitimate immigrants.

Can anyone name one illegal; immigrant who has came here and made this a better nation?

People have been welcome legally since that nation was founded. Since our population has grown so immense.

Because the people have gone through the legal process and effort to come to the U.S., Why open the doors to the illegals that simply sneak across the border? They shou8ld stay home and change their government.

By: yogiman on 7/11/11 at 9:19

I must agree, serr8d,

But I would say the only difference between the humans of this earth and the other animals is we just use a different language and mode of living.

We are simply animals called humans, like animals that are called horses, or cows, or sheep, or goats... or eve animals that are called skunks.

Just wondering; what do the other animals call us?

By: dargent7 on 7/11/11 at 9:29

Illegal immigrants do not make America a "better Nation".
Mexicans come here in droves to have "Anchor Babies" who automatically become US citizens. Then they afforded all the "intitlements" real Americans receive.
They can then run for Mayor, Governor, Councilman, Congress, Senate, and US President.
We've got to tune- up the 14 Amendment...ie., shut it down.
As an aside, I've worked at Nashville's Marriotts, Rennaisance, Trevecca Nazarene College and 90% of the work force is from Egypt. Cario.
They all seem to have a SS# card and a Tenn. Driver License.
Yet, 75% cannot speak coherent English. They all communicate in Arabic.
How'd they pass the DMV Driver's Exam if you cannot read or speak English?
In San Diego, 90% of the employees (hospitality) are Latino, but can read and speak flawless English. Their children are bi-lingual at age 4.

By: dargent7 on 7/11/11 at 9:30

s/h/b "entitlements".
And I s/h/b stayed in San Diego.

By: serr8d on 7/11/11 at 9:34

San Diego is very nice, d7. I loved seeing all the other animals at their world-class Zoo.

By: Ingleweird on 7/11/11 at 9:42

@8utterknife:
You don't need to be an atheist to believe in evolution. Just stop taking Genesis LITERALLY. Consider the possibility that certain portions of the Bible are allegorical in nature.

That said, I believe some of your comments are ample evidence of de-evolution.

Furthermore, who are you to complain about others' angst and anger? You are one of the angriest personas I've encountered...

By: dargent7 on 7/11/11 at 9:48

World Class Zoo, serra8? You mean the Downtown area right?
They've had 4 cars jump curbs and run people over at bus stops. Run into night club front doors. People shooting each other for noon.
You should blogg over at The San Diego Union-Tribune.
You'll notice a difference between the CP/ Tennessean and the CA West Coast in 10 seconds, or less.

By: dargent7 on 7/11/11 at 9:55

Ingleweird. Absolutely not.
serr8'd makes cherent arguments supporting his suppositions.
You want crazy, angry white men?
Check out The Tennessean's "Letter's to the Editor".
These gaggle of idiots just run their sociopathic boilerplates on every and any topic presented: Obama, Climate Change, gays, PPH, Liberals, government, economy.
It's Ground Hog Day over there, every day.

By: dargent7 on 7/11/11 at 9:56

"coherent"....typing too fast.

By: MamaG on 7/11/11 at 10:12

@ slacker: I just heard about Kenny Baker dying last Friday. Did you hear about it? He was a good, long-time friend of my dad.
@ everyone else: Howdy!

By: pswindle on 7/11/11 at 10:14

Look at what has happened in states that have made laws about immingration, and the food is rotting in the fields.

By: yogiman on 7/11/11 at 10:14

Wonder where they are getting their Social Security numbers, dargent7. Maybe out of Connecticut like Barry?

dargent7, to make such a ridiculous comment about those "anchor babies" being eligible to serve as president of this nation makes me think you are drinking too much of that booze instead of serving it.

Have you thought about going back to school? Take a class in civics.

Those children can only be considered a native born at best. Surely at least one parent must be an American for your consideration of them being natural born, but the common Americans for all these years thought both parents had to be Americans to be a natural born.

By: bfra on 7/11/11 at 11:02

d7 - Hispanics in CA, are like a different breed than what we have here. Yes they speak English, very well and don't have that gimme, gimme arrogant attitude. The ones here act as if they are entitled and America owes them everything.

serr8d Sure has nothing better to do, if he says anything, other than praise about the San Diego Zoo or he has never been.

By: budlight on 7/11/11 at 11:08

you are correct Kosh. We are only human though. I have gone through times when I was not "working on it" and now I'm hopefully on the right path with no diversions.

D7, no they don't make America better. They make us poorer and more vulnerable to threats! They want America to be the spitting image of Mexico - the bad parts! I'm not talking the resorts; I'm talking outside the resorts.

Pswindle if food is rotting in the fields, maybe the employers should consider hiring at decent wages instead of undercutting the wages so they can hire illegals. My hubby is now laid off. He did not run to the unemployment office. He took a laborer job at $12 an hour. He worked 3 days @ 12 hours each. One of the hispanic labor force said "Hey, you work like a Mexican, man". My husband looked at him and said "I work like an American with Ethics". I was proud of him. If you pay my husband $10 an hour or $100 an hour, he has the same dyed in the wool work ethic and devotion to his skill and craft.

Wish there were more like him. (not more husbands, but more workers - ha, ha,)

By: Bellecat on 7/11/11 at 12:37

No family can adopt more children than they can provide for. Our country is the same. We only have so much money and other resources, These should go for our own citizens, not citizens of other countries. We simply cannot take every person in the world into our borders.

We can teach others how to make their own countries stronger and how to fight for democracy, but they have to do it-- just like our own forefathers fought and died for our freedoms and lifestyles which we enjoy today.

By: brrrrk on 7/11/11 at 1:08

Republican integrity?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/gop-allies-hatching-sleazy-dirty-tricks-in-wisconsin-recall-wars/2011/03/03/gIQASL1f3H_blog.html

By: rbyrd68 on 7/11/11 at 1:56

Does anybody remember who used to do the jobs that the ILLEGAL immigrants are doing now?
It was teenagers and other people trying to pay their way through college. There are also people who prefer to do physical work rather than sit behind a desk.
Send the illegals back to where they came from and let our younger generation of United States citizens learn how to work hard. In my day it was teenagers working behind the counter at McDonalds, mowing the lawns, and shoveling the driveways. Not only will people have jobs and money, but they will not be sitting at home playing video games and eating junk food, getting fatter and unhealthier by the hour.

By: dargent7 on 7/11/11 at 4:07

rbyrd68: Let'sd bring back the 8-Track tape, LP record, Corvair, typewriter, corded wall phones while we're at it.
It's 2011 .5 We'll never go back to the "good ol' days" of the 50's, 60's, even early 70's. "Father Know's Best"? "Donna Reed"?
Now it's, "Jersey Shore" and "The Bachlorette".

By: brrrrk on 7/11/11 at 4:14

dargent7 said

"It's 2011. We'll never go back to the "good ol' days" of the 50's, 60's, even early 70's. "Father Know's Best"? "Donna Reed"?"

And the reality is that these shows never represented the daily lives of the majority of Americans. They were TV shows, FOR GOD'S SAKE. Pure escapism. Here's a shocking piece of news... there was no Beaver!

By: shoes1 on 7/11/11 at 7:02

Buy 20% of what we currently buy "made in China".... "made in Mexico" Most Mexicans would gladly return to their homeland if they could earn a living there. In the meantime, make the working illegal aliens- temporary residents and charge them a handsome tax for the privilege of working here. Use the money to administrate the program and enforce the laws. Mr. and Mrs. Consumer should prepare for a moderate increase in the price of almost everything. Really people. It should be against the law to have laws that are not enforced. There are those that are benefiting more greatly from the preponderance of illegal aliens... it seems that these are also those that seem to wield the greatest influence with lawmakers. Another case of the "Golden Rule".... Those with the gold..... make the rules.

By: Brittanicus on 7/11/11 at 8:41

HOW MANY ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE REALLY HERE?

In all the talks and discussions about cutting back on the US treasury deficits, both parties are refusing to consider in these antagonistic debates, the fact that illegal aliens are compounding this major issue; the dollar amount to the $14.5 Trillion dollars, in this miserable meltdown we are facing. The Department of Homeland Security estimated in 2003, that 8 million to 12 million illegal aliens had settled in America and 700,000 new people enter illegally and stay each year. That’s across borders, by lying at entry ports as tourists to the official. These administration statistics are somewhat suspect and may represent major under counting, as they are fashioned by the very people accountable for the tsunami of illegal aliens entering our country. An alternative method is used here to estimate a range of numbers of illegal’s that is probable more levelheaded.

The precise number of illegal’s entering the United States and the exact rate at which they cross our borders are unknown. Official government numbers are often hard to come by, remain intentionally concealed and are habitually sanitized, in the federal sector and states. This directed (CAPS) California for Population Stabilization to seriously question officials at the Census Bureau and (DOF) California Department of Finance, population figures on these numbers. As an alternative of the 8 million to 12 million illegal aliens these agencies and the liberal progressives claim to be here, there may actually be 20 million to 30 million or more? Nobody truly knows?

The cost of harboring illegal immigrants in the United States is a staggering $113 billion a year; an average of $1,117 for every household in America and that’s just at the federal level. More truth and Statistics requested? Go to NumbersUSA or Judicial Watch.

Freshman Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.) added his name to 14 different bills on Thursday that would reduce overall immigration levels and work to end illegal immigration.

* H.R.152 - a bill introduced by Rep. Ted Poe's to improve border security
* H.R.310 - a bill introduced by Rep. Sure Myrick that would prohibit federal funding to institutions of higher learning that provide in-state tuition to illegal aliens
* H.R.691 - a bill introduced by Rep. Phil Gingrey that would prevent mortgages from going to illegal aliens
* H.R.692 - a bill introduced by Rep. Phil Gingrey that would end Chain Migration
* H.R.693 - a bill introduced by Rep. Phil Gingrey that would require all businesses to use E-Verify within 60 days
* H.R.800 - a bill introduced by Rep. John Carter that would require all businesses to use E-Verify within 2 years
*
* H.R.1091, introduced by Rep. Duncan Hunter that would require DHS to construct 350 additional miles of border fencing
* H.R.1134 - a bill introduced by Rep. Duncan Hunter that would prohibit federal funds being sent to sanctuary cities
* H.R.1196 - a compilation bill introduced by Rep. Gary Miller, the LEAVE Act, that would end birthright citizenship, require nationwide use of E-Verify, improve interior enforcement, and discontinue rewards to illegal aliens
* H.R.1459 - a bill introduced by Rep. Sue Myrick, the Scott Gardner Act, that would increase penalties for illegal aliens caught with a DWI
* H.R.1698 - a bill introduced by Rep. Sue Myrick that would increase fines for employers that hire illegal aliens
* H.R.1764 - a bill introduced by Rep. Charles Boustany that would end sanctuary cities
* H.R. 2000 - a bill introduced by Rep. Heath Shuler, the SAVE Act, that would require all employers to use E-Verify and strengthen interior and border enforcement
* H.R.2164 - a bill introduced by Rep. Lamar Smith, the Legal Workforce Act, which would require all employers to use E-Verify.

American cannot afford anymore to support the poverty of other countries. The final straw was learning from the (FAIR) Federation of American Immigration reform that a volume amnesty would cost to process everybody with all the FBI background checks, health checks and the occupied paperwork over $2.5 trillion dollars. This is incorrigible when 13 million Americans are seeking work and this country, is still in a recession and unlikely to climb out of this $14.4 Trillion dollars financial chaos for years. Every American needs to rethink his vote for 2012. Not for Democrats, not for Liberals and not for Republicans, but for this Nation's People under the banner of the TEA PARTY.

This is the time to empty the overcrowded classrooms, full with the children of illegal aliens. Give hospitals breathing space saving billions of dollars from uninsured illegal immigrants, who knowingly enter by foot, vehicle, aircraft or boat into the United States. Entering illegally in a violation of our national sovereignty and should be a felony, for illegal aliens and those who knowingly break the rules, including businesses. Start the Attrition by enforcement programs such as E-Verify, Secure Communities and support Arizona, Alabama, Georgia, Utah and States nationwide who have no choice but to restrict illegal immigrants through police laws as their welfare programs are being sucked dry.

Fearful illegal nationals are bypassing Arizona and loading their possessions, heading for Sanctuary States as California, Nevada, Illinois, Washington state and many counties within particular States.

By: TaylorSwiftFan on 7/11/11 at 8:42

Actually Dargent7, where I lived in California (LA) as a kid we actually lived as they did and my best friend and I were like the Beaver!
There actually were kids and people that lived that way and I related very much to those shows you mentioned except my Father was a policeman in the LAPD and I had friends that lived down the street, it was pretty close reality for some of us!
The city I actually lived in was Sough Gate, California.
We did many of the same things that the Beaver and his brother did.
We did not have a big cup of soup to crawl in and get stuck as the Beave did in one episode.
It WAS a TV show but it was a parallel way of life for some of us.

Keith in Snohomish, WA.

By: TaylorSwiftFan on 7/11/11 at 8:47

By the way I read your paper every day as I get it e-mailed to me via the net.

Why is that these bleeding hearts keep taking sides with these criminals?

I just don't understand!

Keith

By: judyboodo@yahoo.com on 7/11/11 at 9:49

That's a really good question Keith. I have always thought most conservatives were at peace with what they had achieved both in life and materially. It seems to me that most liberals are ashamed of what success they have had, especially in material things. Why do some people feel a need to endanger their and their fellow citizens why of life by supporting ideas and efforts that are directly responsible for some of these problems? And I too saw plenty of analogous scenes in Leave it to Beaver that paralleled my life as a child. I want this country to embrace it's history and religious values. I want it to be proud of what it's place is in the world. I want it to be more concerned about itself than the rest of the world. Through strength will America again be that shinning beacon on the hill. And that is how America can help the rest of the world, not by giving them things.

By: shadylane on 7/12/11 at 8:45

Could someone please explain to me why a natural born citizen can and is prosecuted for breaking the law but an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT is not? Their very presence here is breaking the law and yet we give them a free education and they can hold jobs, they are provided medical care and housing. Then when caught they want to rally and shout about their rights. What about my rights as a citizen to know that the laws are applied fairly to all people? How is it fair to me as a natural born citizen to know that an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT can break the law and nothing happens?

By: Ingleweird on 7/12/11 at 10:58

@TSFan:
In this country, we have something called "due process." Government cannot prosecute people simply because it makes sense to you; they must follow the Constitution. Failure to do so may result in a lawsuit against the city/state/country, or the case being thrown out on technicality, wasting time and money. It's your tax money; how do you want it wasted?

@shady:
NAFTA and other similar legislation has created loopholes that make it easy for US companies to hire non-US citizens. For example, the guest worker program. Many employers are not required to verify citizenship, or may turn a blind eye by employing people as an independant contractor, not an actual employee. Police may not arrest people because they "look" Mexican or speak Spanish; a crime must have been committed or the police must have probable cause. To ignore this is to violate the Fourth Amendment, potentially resulting in lawsuits and charge dismissal.

The only lasting recourse is to convince Congress to repeal NAFTA and similar legislation, or to amend the US Constitution.