Up for Debate: Permitting LED signs

Tuesday, November 1, 2011 at 11:15pm

Would permitting a special zoning change to allow one church the use of an LED sign lead to a bad precedent throughout the county, or could Metro handle such changes on a case-by-case basis?

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Up for Debate

60 Comments on this post:

By: Captain Nemo on 11/2/11 at 3:47

I think it would be a bad idea to let this happen. Once you let them cross the line, then they’re one step closer to you.

By: dargent7 on 11/2/11 at 5:48

I'm not a lawyer (but I play one on this board), but if one is allowed, ALL churches would be allowed.
Then, the Muslims who want mosques on every street corner would demand signs in Arabic.
Indians would want them in Sanskrit.
I miss the olden days where everything was in black & white.

By: govskeptic on 11/2/11 at 6:33

Is the supplier giving a big discount to get this flashing Camel's
nose under the tent?

By: serr8d on 11/2/11 at 6:44

Just to see what we're speaking of...

http://www.signprofessional.com/images/signs_fo_jim6.gif

Can't see how we could deny any given Church LED or neon signs, if they wish them, and other businesses already have 'em. Many Churches have the steeples; those are the original attention-getters. Maybe the LED signs are more affordable.

These new signs would be targets for Democrats who are also 99% atheists, though. Like Christmas trees already are already targets for atheists who are mostly Democrats. Given Democrats are of THE Party that embraces Atheism as it's Party's religion, and has the destruction of any public display of religion as one of it's Party's platform planks...unless of course it's the Musloid religion; they get a pass from Democrats, and are encouraged; the Muslims can do whatever they want to do. Since they are of the 99%, and all of that.

By: serr8d on 11/2/11 at 6:54

Kids will be kids...

A wealthy Manhattan real-estate agent buying Halloween goodies for underprivileged kids at an East Harlem mall was nearly killed by two 12-year-old punks who dropped a shopping cart on her from four stories above — then laughed about it later, police sources said yesterday.

Marion Salmon Hedges was with her 13-year-old son, who watched in horror as his mom fell to the ground in the East Harlem mall on Sunday.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/tossed_cart_hit_philanthropist_A9LWJ98bXkyoqktLimfphK#ixzz1cY2gvi6Q

What they surely DIDN'T need was a good family who embraced the evils of religion. Can't allow any of that.

By: dargent7 on 11/2/11 at 7:01

"...99% of Democrats are Atheists...""...target Christmas trees..." "Musloids..."
I have a question: living in Tenn. where I assume this clown lives, how does one get so bitter, hatfull, vapid, emotional vacant and void, and dissassociated from reality?
Does he drink directly from the Cumberland River? With no filtration?

By: serr8d on 11/2/11 at 7:18

Heh. d7, those are your Party's signature beliefs. I've the gift of distilling the essence of LeftLibProggery and also poking it with sharp, cutting implements. Deal with it; it's your core beliefs getting bright lights, and like la cucaracha inna kitchen, you can always simply scuttle under the refrigerator.

By: serr8d on 11/2/11 at 7:20

Oh! "A Day in Zuccotti Park"..

And the man haranguing them from the sidelines was in actuality condemning them for their lack of commitment. Over and over he shouted, “You’re only here for the free food — not the revolution,” alternating with, “The revolution is not about free food.” I stood to one side for a while, and it was soon apparent to me that for the majority of those at Zuccotti Park, their revolutionary fervor was very much related to getting a free meal.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/281881/day-zuccotti-park-jim-lacey

By: treehugger7 on 11/2/11 at 7:22

God doesn't need bright lights to find you...

By: dargent7 on 11/2/11 at 7:29

Sir-8:
The difference between a Democrat and a Republican is called truth and honesty.
When I go to church it's for my soul, my well-being.
A Republican goes for "the show".
When I put up a Christmas tree, it's for the memories and the celebration of Christ's birth.
A Republican does it for "the show".
As in hollow, emotionally void and vacant, a pervasive disdain for his/ her fellow man.
Unless you belong to the same, "Whites Only" club of rich and well healed.
Democrats want to, even feel compelled, to help the less fortunate.
A Republican looks at the unfortunate and disadvantaged as a blight on society and one that needs to be removed. by any law possible.
You live with that, Sir-8.

By: serr8d on 11/2/11 at 7:53

Oh, d7, I beg to differ.

Democrats have no 'truth' unless it's manufactured to further their agenda; ask Dan Rather about the 'truth' of George Bush's National Guard service.

Democrats have no 'honesty' unless it's their version of it; ask retired Democrat Bart Gordon why he fled the 6th District before the 2010 election, he'll tell you the reason was because he's 'too old' (he was 60). The real reason? because he was tired of having to kiss Nancy Pelosi's far-left jack boots.

Democrats don't recognize Christmas trees unless they are named 'Holiday Trees', and only accept those if they are not in public places.

We, Republicans, will gladly give a hand to a person who needs it; but we will not make it a lifetime attraction. Democrats will build gift 'plantations' where they will assemble those whom they believe 'need' their gifts; then keep on those 'plantations' minorities they've assembled, for their 'own good'. And these minorities dasn't never leave those Democrat's 'Plantations of Dependency', or they'll be Hell to pay. Just ask Clarence Thomas or Herman Cain, or any minority who dares NOT to be a Democrat.

The fact that a black man (Cain) can go from being poor to becoming a millionaire, without using the Government Teat...why, such stories could tear the Democratic Party apart~!

By: budlight on 11/2/11 at 7:54

Captain Nemo on 11/2/11 at 3:47
I think it would be a bad idea to let this happen. Once you let them cross the line, then they’re one step closer to you.

This has already happened in the general business arena. There is an LED sign at the corner of Murfreesboro Road and Bell Road advertising businesses. The community was OPPOSED to it and the department responsible for it, said YES, ANYWAY.

So what's the difference. Business? Church? It's all the same;; it's advertisnig. I am opposed to it. But gee, I'm only a taxpayer, so what does it matter?

Serr8d, hopefully those shopping cart thugs will be in jail for a long time. That was definitely evil!

By: yogiman on 11/2/11 at 8:08

Why would a church feel they needed a bright LED sign to attract people? You either want to go, or you don't.

By: dargent7 on 11/2/11 at 8:09

Throwing a couple of quarters into a Salvation Army pot during the holidays is not "supporting the less fortunate".
Democrats realize the "less fortunate" are 24/7, not just between December 15th and 25th.
The bigger picture is you people deny sex education, birth control, condom distribution, and abortion, yet screw like rabbits.
Force the "mother" to have the "baby" in cases of rape and incest?
Provide counselling?...( Palin)
Kiddin' me?
And name ONE war you weren't fond of.

By: i.am.a.taxpayer on 11/2/11 at 8:17

I do not understand what some of these comments have to do with the question.

I also do not understand what the big deal is about a sign. Wasn't there already a lighted sign there? The fact that it is just new technology should not upset people just because it is different, and it is not as if they will be shining spotlights into the windows of the homes there.

The Metro Government spends a ridiculous amount of time on zoning issues, when there more serious problems to be addressed. We have one of the largest councils in the counry and they devote half of their meetings to zoning (every other meeting is zoning, and every other meeting is everything else combined). Does any other council in any location do that?

In larger cities that have smaller councils, they do not spend such a large proportion of their time on zoning. It just makes no sense.

By: dargent7 on 11/2/11 at 8:17

This just in: Justin Bieber is being sued for paternity.
Back when he was 11.
At 11, I was carving out a Pinewood Derby car with my Boy Scout knife.

By: dargent7 on 11/2/11 at 8:26

i.am.a...Welcome to the party, pal.

By: BenDover on 11/2/11 at 8:37

Weighing in ton the Repub. / Dem. debate of the day: Dems seem to believe that taking someone else's hard earned money at gunpoint and then using it to do whatever their own definition of good is is altruistic and charitable.

Repubs seem to realize that the only real form of altruism and charity is willful donation of your own time and money not someone else's.

By: Loner on 11/2/11 at 8:41

I left this and other follow-up remarks on this topic on the NCP board for the main article on this:

By: Loner on 11/2/11 at 7:46

Good morning, Nashville!

As for what to do about a proposed, mega-bucks, 96 foot-long, LED, super-sign, all I can ask is: "What would Jesus do?"

Christ got his message out just fine without needing sophisticated super-signage...the pastor(s) at this church need gaudy. glitzy, electronic visual aids to get their message out, or so it appears.

Of course, Christ did not have the kind of money and political influence that the pastor of this church has....Councilmen jump when this pastor barks.

Sounds like this "temple" is a highly profitable enterprise, with demonstrated political influence.

One wonders what sorts of messages will be displayed on the hi-tech electronic billboard....most likely exhortations to tithe one's @ss off...those signs ain't cheap and the pastor needs new designer shoes.

Sounds like this "temple" could use a good outside audit....it looks like lots of cash is moving around inside that tax-free entity....and lots of political clout is being brought to bear upon the state, by a church.

This whole matter has a distinct stink upon it, IMHO....it's that old church vs state conundrum. Thank God, it's good for an occasional laugh.

By: Loner on 11/2/11 at 8:45

I threw this out there too:

How big is 96 feet? The trailers on most over-the-road semis are 50-55 feet long...this super sign is nearly as long as two of those trailers. That's effin HUGE.

And they want to put this monstrosity up in a residential neighborhood?

They're joking, right?

This sign, if approved, will probably touch off a "Sign War" between the competing temples, churches and whatevers...."My sign's bigger than your sign - My God's bigger than yours."

As I have said before, Holy Wars Suck.

My outsider's advice to the Council is to say, "NO", to this proposal....you will be opening up Pandora's Box, if you vote, "YES".

By: Loner on 11/2/11 at 8:47

What the heck...I threw this in too:

By: Loner on 11/2/11 at 8:04

One is forced to ask, how much does a sign like that cost to buy, install and operate? Who gets the kickbacks? WTF is going on here?

(There, now I'm up to speed with this hi-speed group of erudite posters.)

By: BenDover on 11/2/11 at 8:47

I noticed the McDonald's on Nolensville @ Old Hickory put in flat screen digital menus. They look fantastic.

By: Loner on 11/2/11 at 8:49

Taxpayer, as I said on the other thread, I don't think that the novelty of the technology is frightening people...it's the "IN YOUR FACE" proselytizing that signs like this are designed to do...that's the turn-off for most reasonable people.

In this particular case, the signage is too close to residential housing, according to this article. That's a legitimate concern.

As a taxpayer, aren't you somewhat put off by a wealthy, tax-exempt church pressuring government for concessions in such a brazen and arrogant manner? That would tick me off, buddy...but I don't pay your local taxes...you do.... Give 'em Hell.

By: Loner on 11/2/11 at 9:02

Ben Dover and Serr8d both pine for the golden olden days...the days of Charles Dickens...when the Scrooges of the day would toss a half-penny into a crowd of street urchins, just to see them fight for the coin...great sport it was....jolly good sport, eh?

No, I prefer a system wherein a duly elected, secular and pluralistic government uses its resources to assist its most needy and vulnerable citizens...that's not government charity work, that is fulfilling the Constitutional mandate for government to promote the general welfare and the "pursuit of happiness". It's a requirement, not an option.

Entitlements are not giveaways. Everybody pays taxes in one form or another; therefore "other people's money", is in fact everybody's money.

Some of the richest citizens pay the least in taxes, in proportion to their wealth; on the other end of the spectrum, some of the poorest citizens pay the most in taxes, in proportion to their wealth.

By: Loner on 11/2/11 at 9:11

Looks like Mr. Pepperoni's memory is faulty..he has that plausible deniability thing going...and he thinks an "agreement", in which cash is awarded to a complainant and papers are signed, is not a "settlement"...the man sure sounds like he has Presidential Qualities...he don't know nuthin'.....he's perfect for the White House.

As Cain struggles, like a Brontosaurus in a tar pit, Romney and Perry chuckle...they might throw some feathers on the tarred, sinking Mr. Cain....they ain't gonna throw him a lifeline, that's for sure. This is all quite entertaining for us leftist commies and dirty hippies....LOL.

By: Loner on 11/2/11 at 9:23

Hey...do I get the 9:11 Award? (JK)

By: brrrrk on 11/2/11 at 9:49

I'm curious.... shouldn't it be the "message" that draws people into the church and not the advertising? Are they businesses or houses of God?

By: BenDover on 11/2/11 at 9:51

I'd say a 90' sign is a good way to get your message out.

By: yogiman on 11/2/11 at 9:52

Loner,

In answer to your question; 96 feet is 32 yards up (or down, from the 50 yard line) your favorite football field.

My question is: Do they need that much advertising convenience for anyone to come to their church?t Doesn't it make you wonder what they are preaching? Wanna go in and find our?

If that 96 feet is the length, how tall is it?

Wonder if God can see it from Heaven? Are they just trying to get Him to drop down (by) for a visit?

By: jvh2b on 11/2/11 at 9:56

Holy moly - I agree w/ yogi's comment =) See common ground can be found! lol

Serr - You might wanna take your butt plug out - your diarrhea is now coming out your mouth...

By: BenDover on 11/2/11 at 10:13

For the #OWS crew... MF Global is d-u-n-g done...

http://tinyurl.com/Obama-Uber-Crony

By: Captain Nemo on 11/2/11 at 10:26

By: serr8d on 11/2/11 at 6:44

Like Christmas trees already are already targets for atheists who are mostly Democrats. Given Democrats are of THE Party that embraces Atheism as it's Party's religion, and has the destruction of any public display of religion as one of it's Party's platform planks...unless of course it's the Musloid religion; they get a pass from Democrats, and are encouraged; the Muslims can do whatever they want to do. Since they are of the 99%, and all of that.
*******************************************************************************************

Our little silly boy is still on his rant. Get a JOB BOY!!!

By: dargent7 on 11/2/11 at 10:27

The Message = God.
Look at Romney....A Mormon who eschews alcohol, coffee, tea, marijuana, Cokes, Diet Pepsi, divorce, pre-marital sex, tobacco...
Yet, loves the MONEY.
That religion is a joke.
eg., The Osmonds and The Jacksons.
Besides the Kardashians, name a freaker family than "The Jacksons".
In comparison, The Munsters looked downright respectable.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/2/11 at 10:32

By: treehugger7 on 11/2/11 at 7:22
God doesn't need bright lights to find you...
*******************************************************************************************

Yes and he doesn’t need for serr8d to shout for him to hear the little brat’s rants. LOL

By: bfra on 11/2/11 at 10:33

Loner - You did a good job, summing up the sign issue! The influence & kickbacks are really, "right on" here in Metro. That is what the entire Metro gov. is run by! With Karl Dean leading the pack.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/2/11 at 10:36

By: budlight on 11/2/11 at 7:54

This has already happened in the general business arena. There is an LED sign at the corner of Murfreesboro Road and Bell Road advertising businesses. The community was OPPOSED to it and the department responsible for it, said YES, ANYWAY.

So what's the difference. Business? Church? It's all the same;; it's advertisnig. I am opposed to it. But gee, I'm only a taxpayer, so what does it matter?
*******************************************************************************************
One is residential and the other is suburbia. It is just that simple.

By: dargent7 on 11/2/11 at 10:38

90' signs to bring in parishers?
Are these "Ministers of God", or Jerry Jones wanna be's?
And from what I've seen, the Cowboys suck this year.

By: BenDover on 11/2/11 at 10:39

The zoning variances are important to the council because it offers the best leverage for graft. The only reason there are restrictions to begin with are to elevate the power of the council to squeeze organizations for a pay-out.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/2/11 at 10:42

By: BenDover on 11/2/11 at 8:47
I noticed the McDonald's on Nolensville @ Old Hickory put in flat screen digital menus. They look fantastic.
*******************************************************************************************That is a business district. Apples and Oranges, Ben Try again.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/2/11 at 10:48

So Ben why do you think it is the Democrats are doing this to Cain? I would be looking into the GOP myself. Perry or others would benefit from his fall the most.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/2/11 at 10:55

By: BenDover on 11/2/11 at 10:39
The zoning variances are important to the council because it offers the best leverage for graft. The only reason there are restrictions to begin with are to elevate the power of the council to squeeze organizations for a pay-out.
*******************************************************************************************

Zoning is important so we don’t have Adult Entertainment next to your house or schools. I just bet Ben will scream the loudest if some unwanted sign blocked his view or Flashed on and off in his windows.

By: brrrrk on 11/2/11 at 10:57

Loner said

"No, I prefer a system wherein a duly elected, secular and pluralistic government uses its resources to assist its most needy and vulnerable citizens...that's not government charity work, that is fulfilling the Constitutional mandate for government to promote the general welfare and the "pursuit of happiness". It's a requirement, not an option."

"In a July 1854 essay, Abraham Lincoln wrote: 'Why ... should we have government? Why not each individual take to himself the whole fruit of his labor, without having any of it taxed away?' He answered his own question: 'The legitimate object of government, is to do for the people whatever they need to have done, but which they can not do, at all, or can not do, so well, for themselves - in their separate and individual capacities .... There are many such things ... roads, bridges and the like; providing for the helpless young and afflicted; common schools ... the criminal and civil [justice] departments.'"

Anybody ever hear of the REA (Rural Electric Administration)?

By: brrrrk on 11/2/11 at 11:27

serr8d said

"These new signs would be targets for Democrats who are also 99% atheists, though."

Wow, what a load of horseshit!!! This doesn't even make sense statistically. But then again, I wouldn't expect anything different from a paid troll.

According to the most recent numbers from the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, 1.6% of the population of the United States self identify as Atheists. And even if you lump Agnostics and those who identify themselves as Secularly or Religiously Unaffiliated, the number only goes up to 16.1%. The most recent estimate I've seen on the percentage of registered Democrats in the United States was about 43%.

http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

By: brrrrk on 11/2/11 at 11:30

One other thing, Atheism is not restricted to one party. Libertarians embrace it (can you say Ayn Rand, the patron saint of Libertarianism?) as well as some Republicans, although Republicans are too chicken-shit to admit it.

By: budlight on 11/2/11 at 11:49

dargent7 on 11/2/11 at 8:09
Throwing a couple of quarters into a Salvation Army pot during the holidays is not "supporting the less fortunate".

You are not on top of your game today. The Salvation Army is a 24/7 type of aid organization. They have homeless accommodations, food and education for the public. So they are not just a Christmas thing. Of course you would not know that because you have not had to use their services. My mother did have to go there when I was 8 years old. For their help, I will always be grateful and do contribute nearly year round. They are wonderful.

By: Captain Nemo on 11/2/11 at 11:55

WoW

By: bfra on 11/2/11 at 12:10

The echo Troll missed the point!

By: brrrrk on 11/2/11 at 1:28

dargent7 said

"I have a question: living in Tenn. where I assume this clown lives, how does one get so bitter, hatfull, vapid, emotional vacant and void, and dissassociated from reality?"

Maybe it's the air in Smyrna?

By: ACitizen on 11/2/11 at 2:27

A Citizen
I am opposed to BL2011-25, a bill requesting an LED sign for Temple Baptist Church in District 1.

We've been through this issue of LED billboards and signs in the recent past. I believe we have Zoning Laws and Codes Regulations in place that prohibit placing LED signs/billboards in residentially zoned areas.

The church property and all adjoining and surrounding properties are zoned RS15. The bill is attempting to use SP zoning to rezone .2 acres inside the approx 28.5 acres. As I understand Metro Code 17.08.02 regarding SP zoning, it is to be applied to a property or overlay district; there is no mention of “a portion of the property.”

In the past some LED signs have been allowed near (not in a residential area) residentially zoned property if the setback met the requirements. The proposed sign requires a setback of 300 feet from residentially zoned property, yet the sign will sit less than 12 feet from the nearest residentially zoned property.

Finally, the RLUIPA Federal Act (Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act of 2000) suggests that if BL2011-25 is passed, future requests with similar facts cannot be turned down.

This is not good law and I urge the Metro council to vote against this proposed legislation.

By: brrrrk on 11/2/11 at 2:27

Damned Muslim terrorists.......

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/02/us/4-georgia-men-are-arrested-in-terror-plot.html