Up for Debate: Political positioning

Monday, February 18, 2013 at 2:15am

How do you feel about politicians using controversial bills to position themselves for a higher office, as appears to be the case of state Sen. Jim Tracy?

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Up for Debate

179 Comments on this post:

By: Loner on 2/18/13 at 9:36

By: slacker on 2/18/13 at 9:13

New Yorker.. walks into a dimly lit.. gay piano bar.. carrying an over-sized illegal beverage...

...orders an empty 8-oz. glass, to pour some of his in-excess-of-16-oz, (and therefore illegal), illegal beverage into, to stay legal....the bartender protests, claiming that to do so would violate NY Alcoholic Beverage Control (ABC) laws....but a five-spot "tip" gets him the needed glass....welcome to New York.

By: slacker on 2/18/13 at 9:38


By: BenDover on 2/18/13 at 9:39

jvh brings on the eugenicists argument... Spock-like and logical in the inability to understand why conservatives would not be for the killing of a group of people who most certainly will not support them politically.

Then he/she follows that up by ignorantly stating there are no 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions going on.

By: BenDover on 2/18/13 at 9:43

I'm betting jvh enjoyed Sociology 101 in college. Most likely at Vandy.

By: bfra on 2/18/13 at 9:45

Ben if you know that 2nd & 3rd trimester abortions are going on, where is your proof? jvh makes a lot more logical sense than you.

By: BenDover on 2/18/13 at 9:49

I'm just going by the national stats I pulled up, bfra.

This was my source for 88% in the first trimester... leaving 12% in the later trimesters.


By: BenDover on 2/18/13 at 9:50

If you apply the 12% figure to the number of abortions in Tennessee you get the ~1,500 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions in Tennessee that I noted.

By: Captain Nemo on 2/18/13 at 9:51

No one from Ben's side has ever stated when does a human being, become a human being. At the moment of conception? In the first week? Third week? Fourth Week?

Now take a look at yogi, when did he stop?

By: jvh2b on 2/18/13 at 9:52

Yeah Ben last I checked 2nd and 3rd are illegal...dang near everywhere.

If you've got some proof or stats I'd love to see em.

And it's a valid point that all you can do is try to throw mud on me to defend?? Weak.

So you're all pro-life...but let em rot in poverty and become criminals and bitch about em sucking on the govt teat...that is not logical...it's hypocritical. Just because they are alive doesn't mean they are living. Living is abject poverty most people will tell you...you might as well be dead.

By: BenDover on 2/18/13 at 9:57

You're wrong jvh. Tennessee actually is a mecca for abortions because of our lax abortion restrictions.

By: bfra on 2/18/13 at 9:58

Ben uses his imagination a lot, but can't back it up.

By: BenDover on 2/18/13 at 10:03

jvh... what do you do for a living? Please say you're not a teacher.

Does your cold logic about death being better than poverty extend to the elderly? The infirm? Clinical Morons?

You do realize the poorest among us live in the top 10% in the world as far as standard of living. Does that mean 90% of the people on earth are just an infestation?

Please elaborate.

By: BenDover on 2/18/13 at 10:05


By: slacker on 2/18/13 at 10:08


By: bfra on 2/18/13 at 10:10

slacker - You are being funny this AM!

By: bfra on 2/18/13 at 10:12

Ben - Does your cold logic about death being better than poverty extend to the elderly? The infirm? Clinical Morons?
OMG Ben get real!

By: BenDover on 2/18/13 at 10:16

Now no help from the peanut gallery, bfra. It is a fair and sincere question to jvh given his earlier responses. I'm not necessarily judging... I really want to know where he draws the line.

By: bfra on 2/18/13 at 10:16

jvh - Ben goes over the top to prove his point, whether it is fact, logical or made up.

By: bfra on 2/18/13 at 10:19

Ben - The only peanut gallery I know of, consist of you, yogi & Raspy. You have, on many occasions, demonstrated your sissy, selfish traits of, I want my way, regardless. So don't go making up tales & using unbiased info. to have your way.

By: BenDover on 2/18/13 at 10:26

Ahh... bioya bfra.

You want to take away my guns that I dearly enjoy when they are statistically far less harmful to society than alcohol and cars that exceed the speed limit; about which you want to do nothing... and then you call me selfish and biased?

By: jvh2b on 2/18/13 at 10:29

Considering my occupation has 0 to do with what you are asking...I'll tell you the same thing I tell every other Republican trying to get into my bedroom...it's none of your damn business.

That being aside...yes..I am all for physician assisted suicide. If the person doesn't want to live...why and what right do I have to force them to?

I'm gonna take a gander here and say you've never had to watch a loved one be taken by Alzheimers?
Worst disease imagainable. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy or their family.
My grandfather has degenerated into a lump on a freaking log thanks to this disease. He's alive, yes, but there is ZERO quality of life. EVERYONE, and I mean everyone in my family, including his wife of 67 years wishes this horrible disease never touched him for this exact reason. We all wish he could have been taken by a heart attack or stroke, etc. But to watch him degenerate into nothing...
Hell, we even all agree had he known this was coming...he would have ended up with a self inflicted shotgun wound in the back of his skull.

What is the point of life if there isn't any quality to it?

Why do you advoate for every potential life? Based on a book of fiction written THOUSANDS of years before science was even a thing? A book advocating population growth because power was in numbers? Not exactly a thing now in the 21st centuery...esp considering we are raplidly reaching what the Earth can sustain.

I'm not advocating we start killing off everyone who is old or infirm...they they want to live or their famlies do...fine. Same thing for aboritions...if the family wants it...GREAT!
But to bitch and moan over people who want their life ended with mercy and dignity, or moaning about a clump of cells that a family couldn't support (and don't give me the adoption bull...once fostor homes are begging for children to fill their beds you'll have an argument...until then your full of it), and that same clump of cells you resfuse to support through welfare/charity...your just a hyprocrital clown who advocates for life at any cost, but the quality of life doesn't matter.

By: bfra on 2/18/13 at 10:30

Ben - In your usual inept way, nobody wants to take away your guns, ninny! Assault weapons should be banned. Nobody other than police or military need assault weapons. But you, in your little boy selfish attitude want to see & hear things go pop, as stated by you. Grow up ninny! Get out of the diapers & put some big boy pants on.

By: jvh2b on 2/18/13 at 10:33

And Jesus H...no one wants to take your guns. They want to regulate them like they do with alcohol and cars.

I get your into the whole exaggeration thing to make a point and make people afraid (seriously is fear all the right wing has left any more?) but doing it to the point it's clearly a lie...gives you no credit.

By: Loner on 2/18/13 at 10:34

This post had to be brought forward, to page 2:

By: BenDover on 2/18/13 at 9:35

I think I prefer to focus on what we can do to discourage a portion of the 1.2 Million abortions that happen in the US every year rather than use it as a wedge issue to assure the Arab states that actively persecute people for their religious views wash over and annihilate Israel... one of the few countries in the region that share similar values to the rest of the civilized world.

OMG...Ben, you responded like an Israeli hasbara....maybe you should convert, make Aliyah, join the IDF, learn Hebrew, get circumcised, (if necessary) and put your hide on the line for your beloved Israel....talk about situational ethics and self-bullshitization...this is a great example of both.

By: bfra on 2/18/13 at 10:39

BTW Ben bioya, also!

By: bfra on 2/18/13 at 10:41

Ben - To add: That seems to be where most of your BS comes from.

By: BenDover on 2/18/13 at 10:46

I have 2 guns on your ban list. A Ruger Mini 14 and a Glock 23. You do, in fact, want to take my guns.

By: jvh2b on 2/18/13 at 10:48

Again...another lie...you already have them.

If they are banned...you can't buy them.

No one is coming into your house to take away your guns...unless you do something illegal to begin with, then they take those as a consolation prize.

By: Captain Nemo on 2/18/13 at 10:54

Ben you have become so paranoid about your guns. You seem to think that you and your guns are the only thing holding back an alien invasion from space.

By: yogiman on 2/18/13 at 10:56

Well, I'll be darned, bfra, we finally agree on something: Loner's lack of mentality of Tennessee.

I wouldn't swap my farm for the whole damn state of New York... that is unless I had a buyer standing by.

By: BenDover on 2/18/13 at 10:59

You made some assumptions jvh.

I'm fine with Dr assisted suicide. I could see myself going down that path under certain circumstances.

Would you suggest counseling about the consequences.... does the fact that life, itself, is terminal justify an unfettered right to pull one's own plug or should the circumstances be analyzed and the application be limited?

I'm also dealing with Alzheimer's / dementia with both of my parents right now.

But you make a leap there from Dr. assisted suicide to Alzheimer's patients though didn't you? How can a person choose suicide if they are not of sound mind? And if someone else chooses, is it not then an execution be it a just execution or unjust?

By: Loner on 2/18/13 at 11:01

Bfra, Ben and Yogi..soulmates this morning? If being sick of my comments provides some common ground in TN, then so be it...I'll leave the board, if there is a consensus for me to do so.

By: BenDover on 2/18/13 at 11:01

"Assault weapons should be banned. Nobody other than police or military need assault weapons"

That sounds like a call to take away my weapons jvh. To that, is what I am responding.

By: bfra on 2/18/13 at 11:06

yogi - I wouldn't swap my farm for the whole damn state of New York... that is unless I had a buyer standing by.

You do jest, right? I am very familiar with your part of the country. What farm? A little over 20 acres of hills & rock does not make a farm.

By: Loner on 2/18/13 at 11:07

There coming to take my guns away, ha ha, hee hee...to the funny farm, ha ha hee hee.


By: yogiman on 2/18/13 at 11:08


You state you believe Harry Truman as one of our worst presidents and FDR as one of our best. I must disagree with you on those two men. One of the first bills Truman got passed was the term limit for the president. He also wanted to put term limits on the House and Senate; but they couldn't take a time limit for themselves. They didn't want to go home.

His worst bill was finishing FDR's effort to create the United Nations. The UN was the beginning of the biggest communism effects in the USA and they've finally got a known communist in the White House by their "one step at a time" tenure.

By: slacker on 2/18/13 at 11:10


By: BenDover on 2/18/13 at 11:11

"I'll tell you the same thing I tell every other Republican trying to get into my bedroom...it's none of your damn business."

When did I say I wanted to get in your bedroom.

I simply said that using abortion for birth control is an atrocity. I documented 12% of abortions being in the 2nd and 3rd trimester. I applied that stat to Tennessee stating that would be ~1500 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions a year using the number provided in the article. I invited everyone to look at depictions of the 'lump of cells' you tout as they progress in their development toward birth... particularly 13 weeks and beyond. I supported my point that Tennessee IS an abortion mecca. And then asked why a normal society would not discourage late term abortions as a form of birth control.

You then posed a eugenics argument that being born into poverty is worse than being aborted... called me a hypocrite... and then went on a diatribe of assumptions about my views that have no connection to reality.

By: Loner on 2/18/13 at 11:15

That's a tear-jerker, Slack....guns in bars is just plain stupid.

By: yogiman on 2/18/13 at 11:22

With the politics you have in New York it looks like y'all are competing with Chicago for political dynasty, Loner.

Good luck in your race... I think.

By: bfra on 2/18/13 at 11:24

slacker - Another great one!

Ben - Give it up, you have already made a big enough fool of yourself on every subject. Take a chill pill & start on something you know something about.

By: slacker on 2/18/13 at 11:33

Ben.. do you really think a well thought out lecture from you, or anyone else for that matter, is really going to influence a women's decision on abortion?
I can understand your interest if it involves your wife or daughter, but other than that, is it really any of your business? No offense intended.
By the way.. I'm sure you're aware that if a women wants an abortion, she will get one legally or not.

By: yogiman on 2/18/13 at 11:45

Please tell me, bfra: What is an assault weapon? I understand why you can't explain to me how Barack Obama is in the Oval Office legally; so how about explaining what an assault weapon is.

By: BenDover on 2/18/13 at 11:45

I'm not for making abortion illegal slack. I really don't like the way it's becoming like a mainstream no-brainer form of birth-control either though.

The taboo and stigma about having children out of wedlock is more or less gone. Now we have abortions of convenience because women are mortified about having that tummy during swimsuit season.

With thoughtful ethicists like jvh out there, can designer babies be far behind?

By: bfra on 2/18/13 at 11:49

Ben - jvh uses logic in his opinions, you use paranoia and your own assumptions, like yogi, facts don't enter into your opinions.

For anybody that doesn't know what an assault weapon is, go on line & look it up!

By: Captain Nemo on 2/18/13 at 11:49

That just shows the lack of any intelligent from yogi. The dumb ass troll think that all of New York is a city just like Chicago.

By: yogiman on 2/18/13 at 11:52


If no one wants to take our guns, why did Barack Obama get in contact with the United Nations within two hours after take the oath last month on their gun control issue?

The first thing all dictators have done throughout history has been to take guns away from the citizens. So why does Obama want our guns?

By: yogiman on 2/18/13 at 11:56

You apparently aren't too familiar with my part of the country, bfra. Most of my farm is creek bottom land. Hell, I might even let you plant a garden down there... for enough money.

By: bfra on 2/18/13 at 11:57

Watchit yogi - Obama could be outside your house, right now, going to take your rusty old gun & might even take your aluminum foil hat. He will get your ammo (bbs) & possibly your whittled out knife. Be afraid yogi, be very afraid, they are coming to get you!

By: bfra on 2/18/13 at 11:58

yogi - If you happen to run into Obama, I'll bet he can enlighten you on what makes a FARM.