Up for Debate: Spy vs. spy

Wednesday, May 9, 2012 at 1:23am

What do you make of The New York Times report that states a suspected suicide bomber in plot to blow up U.S. plane was actually a double agent?

Filed under: City Voices
Tagged: Up for Debate

185 Comments on this post:

By: tomba1 on 5/9/12 at 12:48

and next they will be reporting that obama was the "mastermind" behind it all and he "ordered" the CIA to do it and they'll give him all of the "credit".

By: Rasputin72 on 5/9/12 at 2:58

No matter how diligent our CIA may be working towards stopping another major terroist act I am almost positive that one is forthcoming. I travel the world and most of the world hates what they have been told about the United States.

Every chance I get I try to explain that the United States that you hate is almost extinct. If you are under 40 years of age you will probably live to see the United States destroy itself.

By: bfra on 5/9/12 at 3:34

Rasputin72 - So that is why we have immigrants, by the thousands, risking their lives to get here. They want to see what it is about the US they hate so much. NOT

We evidently travel to different places, as I find people in awe about anyone from the US.

By: Rasputin72 on 5/9/12 at 3:53

BFRA......I am not taking taking exception to your rebuttal. I do believe that we have traveled to different parts of the world. What countries have you found people in awe of the United States?

My visits have been mostly to the developed countries of the world. By the way I would say that my visits to China have been friendly as business people there look at the United States as a dumping ground and provider of their economy. Smugly however they find the United States as a rather dull intellectual that would allow them to destroy their economy. You can bet however that they fall on their knees before you if you are intending to buy some of their products.

By: dargent7 on 5/9/12 at 3:59

re: people either hate the United States or are in awe....
Probably 50/50.
I believe what GW Bush and Lon Cheney did for 8 long years destroyed America's soul.
9/11 totally freaked us out. It was worse than Pearl Harbor. But our response to the attack was 100% wrong. If bin Laden was Saudi and 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi, it doesn't take a genius to decide we should of bombed that country. Not Iraq.
We currently have a brilliant statesman in the W.H. and 50% hate him. Obsessed with his birth certificate. Add in, Romney's father, grandfather were born in Mexico and it doesn't ring any bells for the birthers. America is racist.
I will vote for Obama just for the satisfaction of sending a large portion of these idiots into cardiac arrest.

By: bfra on 5/9/12 at 4:01

Mainly countries in Africa and some in Asia. I have found them to be very friendly with Americans and very interested in our Country. Not negative in any way.

From your comments, about Davidson County & now the US, why are you still here?

By: dargent7 on 5/9/12 at 4:29

Jeez. You posters travel to Africa, Asia, China....yet these discussions daily are on a 4th grade level.
If I'm not called an ass-hole by noon on any given day, it's because the server went down.

By: Ummm... on 5/9/12 at 4:31

d7- I agree with much of your 4:59 post, however bombing Saudi Arabia wouldn't have been a proper response to 9/11 either. Bin Laden's terrorist organization was responsible for the attack, and that's who we should have focused our efforts on. Unfortunately, the bastards pulling Bush's strings decided to use 9/11 as an excuse to start a war of aggression against Saddam's regime in Iraq. Obama's presidency has done some good in resotring our country's image in the world, but the damage done by the previous administration will take a long time to overcome.

By: Ummm... on 5/9/12 at 4:33

Oops- s/h/b "restoring" our country's image.

By: bfra on 5/9/12 at 4:39

d7 - I am still waiting for an answer from Rasputin as to why thousands of immigrants risk their lives to get to a Country they hate so much.

By: dargent7 on 5/9/12 at 4:47

bfra: "Risk their lives"? Hardly.
I lived in San Diego for 10 years. Illegals crossed the border, hopped a fence, swam in a stream, or just strolled into town.
There were daily camera videos of Mexicans running thru the turnstiles, over cars, at the border into the US.
They get to pick avocados and strawberries for $5.00 an hour, all cash, not declared, under the table.
I work some time at Bridgestone Arena for $12.00 an hour, all declared, taxed, serving drunk, obnoxious people watching hockey or Motley Cru.
You decide.

By: bfra on 5/9/12 at 4:52

I follow d7 - but, basically evertime an illegal enters any Country illegally, they are risking their life. They are at the mercy of the authorities. if caught.

By: dargent7 on 5/9/12 at 5:07

There's "No Fear"...deportation? So, what?
If caught, get 3 meals a day. Full medical. Calling privileges. Probably tv, cable, computer access. Place to sleep at night.
There's no down side to break the law emmigrating to the USA..

By: gdiafante on 5/9/12 at 5:20

Immigrants come here because they're the only ones left who believe in the American Dream. The irony is that most Americans revile them and think they're entitlement-seeking criminals out to displace English as the official language.

By: Captain Nemo on 5/9/12 at 5:52

bfra,if it was not for Rasputin’s dubious business dealings in foreign countries, maybe the USA would look more positive to other people. Wink,Wink!!

By: gdiafante on 5/9/12 at 5:53

What countries have you found people in awe of the United States?

You don't have to have awe for the country to realize it has one of the highest standards of living in history. If you've been to other countries, this should be obvious.

By: Captain Nemo on 5/9/12 at 5:54

By: yogiman on 5/4/12 at 4:25
The fact that life expectancy today is much higher than 5 decades ago. Old age is becoming very popular now, but it must be kept under control one way or another.
Oh gees, now this is another one of yogi’s discoveries. “Old age has become very popular now…and it must be kept under control one way or another.

I am reminded of Logan’s Run. It depicts a dystopian future society in which population and the consumption of resources are managed and maintained in equilibrium by the simple expedient of killing everyone who reaches the age of thirty, preventing overpopulation.

BTW When was old age not something to live for?

By: Captain Nemo on 5/9/12 at 5:59

Most countries have there good and bad points, just like America. Why do so many Americans live in other parts of the world?

Rasputin as most extremist have a distorted view of life.

By: Captain Nemo on 5/9/12 at 6:03

By: Rasputin72 on 5/8/12 at 10:02
There are days when stirring the pot on this forum is tantamount to debating with Don Quixote. Nothing but the sound of a windmill.

Rasputin, I am afraid that the sound you are hearing is coming from you’re A$$.

By: Captain Nemo on 5/9/12 at 6:06

By: yogiman on 5/8/12 at 10:19
Hang in the, Rasputin72. Consider the advice and ignore it... and forget about that Grey Poupon. I prefer normal mustard. And some with a little honey mix in once in a while.

yogi, the yellow you find in a baby’s diaper is not mustard.

By: dargent7 on 5/9/12 at 6:09

"...highest standards of living..."?
50% of the people hate the elected President.
The Supreme Court rules that Corporations are, "people".
We have over 20,000 murders a year.
We spend $675. billion a year on "defense". We attack other soveriegn countries because they, "don't look like us and do what we say".
The USA ranks in at a 100th in the world in intelligence, scholastic achievement....
Korea, China, Singapore...rate 98% higher.
We're still struggling with the, are "women equal" factor? We deny sex education, contraception, and blather about abortion which is the likely outcome.
Total discrimination against minorities.
Our justice system is a freakin' joke. Kill someone? Hire F. Lee Bailey. Walk free.
Mary Winkler....kills her husband, get 9 months in the funny farm, and then her kids back.
Fall down while at work because you're too freakin fat? Sue the stair co. Hire Hughes & Coleman and get $500,000 and dance by next year.
Our wars are 100% baseless, all fabricated, dating back to 1968 in Vietnam.
Need I go on?

By: gdiafante on 5/9/12 at 6:11

Darge, you need to research what standard of living means.

By: Captain Nemo on 5/9/12 at 6:11

By: yogiman on 5/8/12 at 5:48

I think don't read BenDover.....

yogi think don't BenDover read can. LOL

By: Captain Nemo on 5/9/12 at 6:13

Good morning d7. You are in a good mood today.

By: Captain Nemo on 5/9/12 at 6:18

This is nice Ben and I’m sure that Loner as well as I thinks the same of you, except we are right. LOL

By: BenDover on 5/8/12 at 6:51

By BenDover

He's a bit blinded by his biases, as we all are I guess; but my friend Loner loves this country to a high degree; very unusual in today's America. You dismiss the lone one and his prescient polemics; but they are a welcome addition to this debate. Your knee-jerk dismissal of them is a consequence to you not him.

As for substance, Raspy, best I can tell the ball is in your court not Loner's. Your head seems to be screwed on right but you don't get past first base yet in sharing your opinions in a way that can engage someone not already on your team.

By: Kosh III on 5/9/12 at 6:23

Hey Yogi! How about bashing this foreigner who ran for President this year:


O! wait; it's a Republican....never mind.

By: dargent7 on 5/9/12 at 6:27

I know what "standard of living" means.
There's also, respect, integrity, honesty, ethics, morality.
If "standard" means just money, ok. We're $16. trillion in debt.
For every man, woman, and child it's over $50,000 each.
The Unites States lost all of that 10 years ago.
Just doesn't know or want to see it.

By: gdiafante on 5/9/12 at 6:32

Jeez, Darge...does it need to be spelled out for you?


By: gdiafante on 5/9/12 at 6:44

People come here because of economic opportunity, not some moral and/or ethical high ground. You can complain about the government or the erosion of morality and education in this country, and I wouldn't disagree. But that really doesn't affect immigration, and if it does, it's miniscule.

By: Captain Nemo on 5/9/12 at 6:59

LOL Kosh 7:23 post

By: dargent7 on 5/9/12 at 7:06

Gd: You have to realize, we from Detroit are a simple people.
"Standard of Living" is like saying....what?
I've lived in at least 12 cities in the past 30 years, and there's, "no standard" across the board.
Calif is so different from the south, your head will spin. Boulder, CO is just like Berkley, CA and Portland, OR except the women don't have beards and wear overalls.
Evident today, several contributors travel the world...China, Japan, Korea, Singapore, even N. Dakota and Montana.
Countries have a "soul", and America lost it's during the Bush Admin.
50% of these ass holes think Bush was a "good President" The other 50% think Obama is "attempting to destroy the country".
So, what, "standard" are you quoting?

By: gdiafante on 5/9/12 at 7:11


1. level of material comfort: the level of material comfort enjoyed by a person, group, or society

Really, it's not rocket science.

By: gdiafante on 5/9/12 at 7:11

By: gdiafante on 5/9/12 at 7:11

By: gdiafante on 5/9/12 at 7:11

Sorry, didn't remove the bold...

By: Loner on 5/9/12 at 7:16

Good morning, Nashville.

I went to the link that the NCP provided and read the NYT article.

The UFD (Up For Debate) question of the day: What do you make of The New York Times report that states a suspected suicide bomber in plot to blow up U.S. plane was actually a double agent?

I'd say that HOLY WARS SUCK.....that's what I "make" of the report.

When a nation decides to fight the effects, not the causes, the battle is naturally futile.

What we have with these Islamic terrorists is a Whack-A-Mole situation . You whack 'em in Afghanistan and they pop up in Pakistan...you whack 'em in Pakistan and they pop up in Yemen and so on and so forth. The more you whack 'em, the more they pop up....faster and faster...you finally come to a point where you can't whack 'em fast enough....and you lose the game....and your quarters.

The War Super Lobby (DIE) loves this Whack-A-Mole approach to fighting perpetual holy war....it means job security and economic opportunity for them.

If we are ever going to settle this global theocratic conflict, we need to address the causes of the ill-feelings and the hate. We need to be honest about it and willing to change. It's not an easy thing to do.

Acts of terror and associated violence are the effects - the symptoms - of these causes.

Fighting the symptoms, while ignoring their underlying causes, is a prescription for eternal suffering.

By: Rasputin72 on 5/9/12 at 7:21

DARGENT7......Some days you are red-hot with your comments. Today is one of them.

BFRA.....You asked why these immigrants are coming to a country they hate. They are coming to take the jobs that our underclass welfare people will not take. They also are using our welfare system our medical system and sending their money back to Latin America. I would assume by this behavior that if they do not hate this country they either think we are fools or have complete contempt for this country.

Now in the case of Asians and Muslims please note that they do not meld into this country they do not try to learn the culture but keep their own. You sir suffer from low incomeities which goes right along with Donotwannabeinformedities.

By: govskeptic on 5/9/12 at 7:25

So far we all agree that 9/11 was just bad flying by the terrorist and the
real problem was Bush/Chaney and that Underwear bombs are bad!
Thankfully, this double agent was the one that exposed the plot, versus
carrying it out!

By: Loner on 5/9/12 at 7:26

North Carolina has banned same sex marriage....an amendment to the NC state constitution was on the ballot...it passed yesterday..

Once again, more evidence that Abe Lincoln screwed up royally...he should have let the South go its own bigoted way....the faith-based hate runs deep in the South...from the outhouses to the statehouse.....Yeee Haaawww!!

By: gdiafante on 5/9/12 at 7:27

They also are using our welfare system our medical system and sending their money back to Latin America. I would assume by this behavior that if they do not hate this country they either think we are fools or have complete contempt for this country.

They are also paying taxes. And I must have missed the section in the Constitution that states money earned in this country cannot leave. If that's the case, your class seems to be highly unconstitutional.

Though, you're correct about the jobs. That goes back to the standard of living issue...many think these jobs are beneath them...kind of like how you think of everyone else.

By: gdiafante on 5/9/12 at 7:29

Loner, Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin and California have also banned gay marriage. So much for your theory.

By: BenDover on 5/9/12 at 7:30

I'd say if you can't compete with a penniless, illiterate, Mexican man who can't speak the language and who as endured great hardship to get to this country to try to support his family then it's you who has the problem not him.

We should have relative value hearings and if the Mexican worker can point out a pampered US citizen who doesn't appreciate the great advantages of our relatively superior education system and opportunities in this country; then we can deport that loser instead.

I have no problem with the Mexicans who swim the Grande... in their situation I'd do the same thing to support my family.

Guest worker is the solution. Make it easier to do right than it is to do wrong and then you can focus your enforcement efforts on the much smaller number of people who try to subvert a more reasonable system. Throw out the minimum wage and then the growth in wealth of the unskilled and semi-skilled class will create opportunities for our relatively more educated lower and middle class in America today.

By: Captain Nemo on 5/9/12 at 7:34

Rasputin must have been taught by yogi in history.

Lawson Iichiro Sakai, 87, delivered a moving speech to a large group of Soldiers, civilians and Family members just days before Memorial Day.

Sakai is a Nisei, a Japanese term describing the first generation of children born in the United States to immigrant Japanese parents. In World War II, he was a member of the 442nd Regimental Combat Team, a unit comprised of Japanese-Americans. He is the recipient of two Bronze Stars, four Purple Hearts and the Combat Infantry Badge.


By: Captain Nemo on 5/9/12 at 7:36

Ben is spot on.

By: Captain Nemo on 5/9/12 at 7:39

Here is more for you Rasputin

The troops of the 442nd Regiment fought in eight major campaigns in Italy, France and Germany, including the battles at Belmont, Bruyeres and Biffontaine. At Biffontaine, the unit fought the famous battle, the "Rescue of the Lost Battalion." The 442nd lost more than 800 troops to rescue members of the Texan 1st Battalion, 141st Regiment, 36th Infantry Division.

"In 1988, President Ronald Reagan signed a letter of apology sent out to each of us, an apology from the United States Government for what they did in 1941 and 1942," Sakai said. "Ladies and gentlemen, it takes a great country to apologize for its mistakes, and the United States is the greatest country on this earth."

By: gdiafante on 5/9/12 at 7:39

How exactly is throwing the minimum wage out going the help anyone but the employer? Wages are already stagnant, now you want them to be negative.

By: Loner on 5/9/12 at 7:43

If you had read the article in the NYT before commenting, Govskeptic, you would know that the double agent turned himself in and handed the hi-tech underwear bomb over to official western agencies and their bomb experts. He is a hero to some...a traitor to others.

The agent is a Saudi national whose identity is being kept secret for obvious reasons...he infiltrated a major Yemen based terrorist cell....he gained their confidence and was awarded the underwear-bomb suicide assignment....he then fingered them for a deadly drone attack on Sunday, as he handed over the valuable evidence and gave his detailed report.....a real ballsy fellow, I'd say....if the bad guys find him or his family he is toast.

One of the top Yemeni terrorists was killed in the drone raid on Sunday.....the terrorists took out their revenge on Yemeni soldiers, killing 20 and capturing 25 of the poor bastards....they will probably be be headed.

The hate for the US is now even more vicious and wide-spread than ever in Yemen...we whack 'em in Yemen...they'll pop up in Oman....or Somalia.....it's Whack-A-Mole and Obama is pumping in the quarters, trying to beat the game....so much for the "hope & change"....it was pure BS.....and I admit that I fell for it in 2008.

By: Captain Nemo on 5/9/12 at 7:45

You better watch out Rasputin, they are coming to get you.

Growing numbers of Asian Americans run for Congress


By: Moonglow1 on 5/9/12 at 7:46

Moonglow1: The defense contractors like Lockheed Martin run the country. They suck up our tax dollars. These parasites run brilliant marketing campaigns to increase market demand for their "products" \ weapons. The War on Terror has been their success and has taken billions of dollars from our economy which is why we don't have money for anything else. I don't believe this recent scare. I notice the Repubs want to bring back the Reagan Star Wars boondoggle. I suppose Lockheed, Halliburton, Northrop, and the other parasites need Star Wars to ensure their market share. The Obama war budget is already $700 billion. But that is not enough for these parasites. Soon the USA will be fully militarized like these poor African countries whose populations are regularly exterminated.
Thank goodness France elected Hollende. Maybe sanity will prevail.

By: BenDover on 5/9/12 at 7:46

Another big problem in America (that's about to get worse) is the tax system. When half of the 2nd income goes to taxes in one form or another you create a situation where highly skilled professionals are doing their own un-skilled and semi-skilled work. So instead of spending the day at the lake with the family you've got dad out mowing his own lawn, repairing his own cars and building his own deck because of the perverse fiscal situation where every dollar saved is the same thing as a dollar fifty earned. This combined with artificial measures like minimum wages serve to keep the unemployed unemployed.

Plus you end up with losses of economic efficiency due to lack of specialization... and you suffer unnecessary redundancy in the tools of the trade. The only winners in the deal are Auto-Zone and Home Depot.