What are your thoughts on a recently released video that apparently show Marines urinating on dead bodies? How might this affect the U.S. and its soldiers?
This one is mind-blowing.
These 4 Marines can destroy anything America has done in the entire region.
Even though 19 of them, all Muslims, can kill 2,980 of us in 60 seconds, pissing on 4 dead is an abomination.
These people still think it's the year 11, and our presence there was 100% b.s. and IS GW Bush's legacy.
Hope all 4 are dishonorably discharged, court martialed, hung at sunrise or all 3.
Hope a real Marine, gDiafane, weighs in on this one.
Although I support and appreciate those who serve our country honorably, this kind of idiocy cannot be tolerated. I also think it illustrates an inherent weakness in our military- it isn't difficult to imagine that one or more of those involved in this heinous act knew how wrong it was and didn't want to participate, but went along for fear of being ostracized (or worse) by the others (a la Abu Ghraib). I haven't a clue how to remedy this poisonous psychological climate, but somebody better figure it out.
Ummm: Here's a novel idea. Mind our own fu**kin' business!
I agree. Knowing the Marines of my days of service and even many years after that it's hard to understand those guys were actually U. S. Marines.
Where has the USA went? The services have all become socialized over the last sever decades. We don't have service personnel today we used to have. When you have men and women aboard ship living together makes you wonder. Remembering the lavatory we had when I was aboard makes me wonder about a man and woman sitting side by side in the "library". And in a submarine?
Are they putting women on the battlefront with the men?
"yogi" Yes, always a step ahead and a breath of fresh air. Clarity addressing any situation.
What does 4 Marines pissing on dead people, we killed, probably unarmed, have to do with women in submarines?
The Marines must have known something that the do-gooders do not want the masses of Americans to know about.
They should be punished.
I don't have a lack of intelligence equal to yours. What I cannot not compare are the marines of today being the same caliber of the marines I knew 7 decades ago.
I cannot imagine a U. S. marine urinating on a dead person, even a former enemy.
There is no "something to know" to justify an American marine to do such a thing, Rasputin72. They aren't children after they complete their "boot camp" training.
Let's not get too hasty in our judgements of what is proported to have happened
in this story. Let's also not forget we are sitting in our homes spouting off on a
story in a very foreign and hostile land by young men that may have their own
dead buddies dead or wounded not in the photos. Stupid act yes, as was the
filming of it just as stupid. What we never see on our television is the treatment
of our own dead soldiers bodies by this same enemy. This footage should
have been contained within the military and proper punishment melded out!
Does the press serve American public or military by sensationalizing every
fault of our voluntary forces? The press even during Vietnam never showed
photographs of dead American soldiers hanging from trees with their penis
cutoff and sticking in their own mouths! It's a war, not an Occupy the Plaza!
Too hasty? U.S. Marines urinating on the deceased? Disgusting. I don't really care what the circumstances were, it was highly inappropriate and unbecoming of someone who holds the title of U.S. Marine.
It's called a free press for a reason, not just when it's convenient. And this has nothing to do with the occupy protestors, but nice try, nitwit.
"Too hasty"? 4 Marines, in full battle gear, with American flags on their shoulders, holding their dicks, pissing on dead people.
(yes, they are/ were PEOPLE).
Gang members in East LA. the South side of Chicago, East Detroit, don't desecrate "the dead" in this manner.
These 4 can kiss their lives good-bye. Good-riddance.
Not to air this footage would be considered a cover-up.
A review of past conflicts would likely reveal similar incidents.
One which springs readily to mind is a photograph of a decomposing Japanese soldiers head mounted on a US tank.
Govskeptic raises a valid point about 'armchair' fieldmarshalls safe in their livingrooms, with 20-20 hindsight passing judgement on those at the literal tip of the spear.
Dropped into a hostile environment, lives in danger, trained to kill, our thin veneer of civilization erodes quickly. How would any of us behave were we suddenly in these Marines place? Training people to kill often requires encouraging them to view the enemy as less than human to reduce the aversion and allow them to survive. I am certain that door, once opened, can be difficult to reclose.
To say one would never follow the lead of another is oh so easy to say and believe, safely esconced in our living rooms behind the armor plated monitor, but out there, in the field?
What they did was wrong, and whoever was in charge should have stopped it.
Before you rush to judgement, though, be honest, put yourself in their places, ask yourself what you would have done in the same circumstances?
It's obviously Obama and Biden's fault.
If you have not been in the HORROR of war, then don't judge these people! Yes it was an incredibly STUPID thing to do! WAKE UP people...WAR IS ALL HELL! Let's bring back the DRAFT and start by drafting "CHICKEN HAWKS" first!...BRING BACK THE DRAFT...NOW! Our soldiers need a break!
Moonglow1: Unfortunately many of the men and women that join our volunteer military do so because it is the only alternative left for a job with medical benefits. Often these are not the best and brightest that society has to offer. The wealthy in power start the wars and the poor and downtrodden in our society fight them. How many graduates of MBA volunteer? We then deem all soldiers as hero's when often they are not. In addition the pressures of war contribute to people doing bizarre things. Our soldiers see these government contractors like Blackwater getting away with murder while making more money than our soldiers. A crazy stinking war. Bad for the USA, bad for the world, and a bad deal for our military (who have to fight alongside of contractors who do not follow the rules).
War is Hell and the men and women are trained to be monsters?
Ask01 said: "Dropped into a hostile environment, lives in danger, trained to kill, our thin veneer of civilization erodes quickly. How would any of us behave were we suddenly in these Marines place? Training people to kill often requires encouraging them to view the enemy as less than human to reduce the aversion and allow them to survive. I am certain that door, once opened, can be difficult to reclose."
Having never served in the military, I can't speak to the veracity of your observation. But, it puts me in mind of an old sixties anti-war song called "Universal Soldier." I also have a sticker on my fridge that says, "Pacifism Kicks Ass."
Moonglow1, I cannot speak to current requirements, but just prior to my retirement, many services were having trouble attracting qualified recruits. Many mistakenly regard the military as the last chance, service or prison for troubled children and, my experience anyway, was we didn't want or have time for them. The military is a reflection of society, and as such, troublemakers do slip through, but the majority are indeed the best and brightest the nation has to offer.
Captain Memo, War is indeed hell, but trained to be monsters is inaccurate. Trained to kill, yes, which unfortunately often opens doors people should leave closed. I recall a quote I am ashamed I cannot cite from whom about not staring too long into the abyss, lest the abyss consume you, or some such inference. I fear we may unintentionally create monsters by not adequately tending to the unseen wounds of the mind.
Ummm..., I feel you have hit upon a major component in this discussion. Far too few in our society have served in the military, and even fewer in direct combat. I have no experience in direct confrontation, but hunkering in air raid shelters and accompanying armed patrols on foot, by vehicle and in the air was quite enough for me, thank you very much, and left my with only the highest regard for those who have directly engaged the enemy. I once advocated universal conscription, no deferments allowed for anyone claiming citizenship, unfortunately so many I have encountered since retiring wouldn't pass physical or psychological requirements and would cause me great concern were they watching my six.
As a parting thought, some of the greatest pacifist I know are people who have retired from the military. They advocate restraint and diplomacy and regard war as the foreign policy tool (that is what war is) of last resort. They will, however, tolerate nothing even approaching appeasement, realizing waiting too long is paid in blood and body bags.
Sorry for rambling, but I do get wound up about some issues.
Smile when you call me Memo. Now if you want to turn this into a name calling fiasco, I can dish out as good as I get. However I don’t get even, I get a head.
As far as the career warriors of today, yesterday and tomorrow I would not call them human either. More like killing machines push a button and do as ordered. I don’t begrudge the soldiers, but I do the military leadership that does turn people into killing robots and then just forget them when they are used up.
You break it, you buy it.
Captain Nemo, I do apologize that was a truly unintentional slip of the finger. The "M" and "N" keys are entirely too close, my fingers are too fat, and I don't proofread adequately.
I applaud you for 'getting it' with regards to the fact we teach these people to do jobs but never teach them totally to deal with the consequences. Gone are the days when we think we can just say "Suck it up and deal with the situation." The human mind is too complex to just turn off experiences.
Psychological wounds are more debilitating and dangerous than the physical as they may not present until months or years later. Often with disasterous results. And my impression is few want to address the issue until the situation reaches critical.
Sorry again about the typo.
There are several very tough "shut ins" on this board.
All is well Ask01 and thank you.
Marines, as are all military divisions, are charged with upholding and protecting our US Constitution, against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
That sworn oath DOES NOT INCLUDE holding your dick, in full uniform, with the American flag on both shoulders, and piss on dead "enemy combatants", probably unarmed and collateral damage. Never brought to trial. Just, pissed on.
I'm suprised one or two didn't jerk- off to complete the picture of depravity.
Send the photo to GW Bush & family for next Christmas's card.
Then some idiot videos the act, uploads it on YouTube, and it goes viral. al Jezeera is copyrighting this as a recruitment for "jihadists".
All the US military wants now is a fall-guy (s).
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. And pictures are what photographers want you to see. You don't know what and 'news' is what the "news media" want you to read.
If you wasn't there and didn't see it, you don't really know what was going on.
We haven't been in a war to win since WWII. What the guys of today are going through sure as hell isn't a vacation to have fun.
Dargent7, I'm curious as to how you handled stressful situations when in the same circumstances as these Marines?
How did you reassimilate back into society when you left the military?
Have a good weekend.
Sure, Ask01: Whenever I am faced with a stressful situation, I always first, and foremost, pull out my dick and urinate.
For example, when my 1st wife said she was leaving me, I took out my dick and started to piss on her while she slept.
You know, you southern hicks are so pathetic it's beyond the pale.
You are too stupid to police yourselves. But, guess what?
The world is watching and America is going DOWN.
And it's because of "people" like you who think GW Bush was a "great man", a "visionary", invading Iraq was a noble cause, and Obama was born in Kenya.
Oh, and he played the race card admitting he was half black just to get elected....
Had he adamatly stated, "But, I'm also half white", he would of lost to McCain.
You're proving your intelligence is no bigger than your urination unit. If you feel the way you do about the South, what in the hell are you doing here?
Using the vulgar language you're using over the internet for the world to read is showing your lack of intelligence, integrity and common decency.
Much is being said about this incident. I've received an article from a friend about a statement made by Rep. Allen West of Florida. Rep. West is a retired Lt. Col. who was forced to retire because of a "method" he used to question a POW enemy.
"I have set back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.
"All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two soldiers for the 101st Airborn Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?
"The marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter or reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, And Corps.
"As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell."
We need a man like this to throw his hat in the Presidential ring.
These "marines" were taking a page out of the novel "Shogun"? According to tradition, the victor pisses on the conquered....it's a machismo thing.
These guys may have been urinating on dying men, not dead men...they are taunting them as they pee.
The whole scene looks like a gay circle jerk...I guess that don't ask and don't tell applies to the USMC too....these guys are probably gay....looking for an excuse to view each other's wangs.
They should be drummed out of the corps and their identities should be publicized, so that their shame does not go away too quickly....it's time for Uncle Sam to piss on these jerk-offs.
A born-again Christian warrior, Col. West was drummed out of the US armed forces, because he carried out mock executions on detainees....he is a militant Uncle Tom... the born-agains and the Jews just love this A-hole...again, West is a @ss-licking black man that racist whiteys can fully support.....sickening.
Of course, our troll loves the Uncle Tom...or should we say "Colonel Tom"?
West is a war criminal and he should be in prison, not in the US House of Representatives.
We each have our own personal opinions, Loner. I'm sure you think yours is better than anyone else.
Was you in any combat practice when you was in service? Was you treated like a gentleman? By whom?
West would have faced 11 years in military prison, had the case gone to Courts Martial and if he was found guilty...he admits doing what he did...he claims he did it for his men....West is a bitter Uncle Tom with his eyes on the White House...he wants to get even with those who derailed his career....and idiots like our troll are his biggest supporters.
I'm sorry I'm not as brilliant as you, Loner. If I had only your knowledge I'd be supporting the usurper in office today.
Again, the fact that you're so strongly supporting a man whom you know nothing about shows your lack of knowledge and lack of intelligence to gain such knowledge.
By the way, Loner; have you heard of one man under West's command that's said anything negative about him?
I haven't and I'd like to know. Change my mind about him? Possibly, It would depend on the man that made such a comment.
It could also change my mind if 'Barack Obama' would prove he is in that office legally. It could also change my mind if Congress could convince me they are in that office for us and not themselves.
Back to the name calling, yogi?
What name am I calling whom, Captain Nemo?
Look at your 9:36 posts. You call Loner stupid in your crude and rude fashion.
If I chose to call anyone stupid, Captain Nemo, I could quickly chose you. You apparently studied the English language at a different school than I.
There you go yogi with the name calling.