Viewpoints: A junior Palin?

Monday, February 22, 2010 at 11:44pm

Harold Ford, Jr.'s dip into New York senatorial waters is turning out well for incumbent Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, who is distancing Ford and gaining on former governor George Pataki.

Now, we'll see how far Monday's comment about Ford by her spokesperson will take her:

"With his constant attacks on President Obama's agenda, Harold Ford Jr. sounds more like Sarah Palin and the Republican spin machine than a New York Democrat who is proud of their President," said Gillibrand spokesman Glen Caplin. "Senator Gillibrand is proud to be working with the President to pass a jobs bill that will create new opportunities for workers and health care reform that will lower costs for everyone."

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179 Comments on this post:

By: brrrrk on 2/23/10 at 5:35

BenDover said

"The postal service is a machine... I'll give you that. But even with it's massive infrastructure the private companies routinely kick it's @$$ on priority, etc... otherwise there would be no private companies like FedEx and UPS."

When's the last time you sent a plain letter via FedEx or UPS? And if you did send one, how much did it cost you? I'll guarantee you that it cost you much more than a letter sent via the Postal Service. This is the same baloney argument that they use for why private schools are better than public schools, when there is no real comparison. FedEx and UPS cherry pick the most profitable parts of the mail service just like private schools cherry pick their students.

"The thing about private companies being inept is that it dosen't cost me anything unless I deal with that company."

Show me one large company that doesn't have the same issues of ineptness, because I'm telling you right now... they don't exist. You know it's funny, I know someone who has the same slant on things as you, works for a privately owned company. Care to guess what he constantly bitches about?... how inept his company is.

By: house_of_pain on 2/23/10 at 5:37

Service with a shrug. It's commonplace.

By: brrrrk on 2/23/10 at 5:46

house_of_pain said

"Service with a shrug. It's commonplace."

On that I'll agree, but the solution is not for business to continue treating the American worker like cattle. When companies start treating their workers like assets instead of overhead, then and only then will the attitude of the American worker change. Bottom line, why should any worker working for any company (private, public, or otherwise) give a shit about the company they work for if the company sees them only as a dispensable commodity, especially if the company in question is still pulling in a profit.... loyalty goes both ways.

By: house_of_pain on 2/23/10 at 5:48

You're dead on there.

By: dargent7 on 2/23/10 at 5:53

Companies accentuate the old sales adage, "You're only as good as your last sale".

By: dargent7 on 2/23/10 at 5:57

For a moment there, I thought I logged onto the wrong board.
This discussion is the 1st one I've been a party to, where people aren't calling each other sluts, golddiggers, retards, cross dressers, and perverts.
It's nice. But, it's last call. Almost 5:00pm.

By: Loner on 2/23/10 at 5:58

Back home again, in time for last call at the NCP....I see that Rabbi Ben Dov has been working the Judeo-Christian fundamentalism angle once again. Oy!

Ben, my old friend, such talk is not good at Brushwood...not if you want to impress the young hippie-type "chicks". ...which is, of course every guy's goal at the renowned folklore center. If you are thinking Brushwood, you gotta broaden your spiritual horizons.

For example, it's better if you credit and thank the Iroquois federation for some of the foundational ideas that underpin our American experiment in republican democracy. Ben Franklin studied the Iroquois and borrowed much from these native Americans.

Remember, the Ten Commandments are a re-write. The so-called "decalogue" is actually an incomplete compilation of the Laws of Moses, which supplanted the Laws of Noah.

According to the Jewish sites that I have visited, gentiles are supposed to obey the Noahide Laws, but are exempt from the Laws of Moses and the hundreds of other Mitzvats (commandments) that apply to Jews only.

We shouldn't pick and choose our dogmatic vittles from the Banquet Table of Judaism, as if it the Torah was a spiritual smorgasboard for gentile schmucks.

Capeesh?

By: house_of_pain on 2/23/10 at 5:58

Well, at least we can watch the Olympics, where people will still push themselves to prove they're the best in the business, even though there may not be a big financial windfall waiting at the finish line.

By: house_of_pain on 2/23/10 at 5:59

d7, you ignorant slut...

By: brrrrk on 2/23/10 at 6:04

dargent7 said

"For a moment there, I thought I logged onto the wrong board.
This discussion is the 1st one I've been a party to, where people aren't calling each other sluts, golddiggers, retards, cross dressers, and perverts.
It's nice. But, it's last call. Almost 5:00pm."

You forgot bitch....

By: BenDover on 2/23/10 at 6:05

brrrk, the point isn't that there are inefficiencies in private companies. The point is that the inefficiencies are not my responsibility to pay at a disproportionate rate as I do with respect to taxes.

I can buy and sell the stock of any company I like. i can choose to buy a product from any company I like. If the company is inept compared to other companies then I'll chose a company that better suits my needs to deal with.

That is not the relationship we suffer with government.

And, on whole, companies in this country are necessairly operate more efficient than government because they have an incentive to do so.

A failure is as good as a result to government as either one is used justify increasing budget.

I'll have to leave you with this question but what problem do you have with making everyone suffer an equal percentage of the cost of government? Don't you think that would make goverment more efficient? Don't you think such a system where every person has a vested interest in the cost and results would demand government produce a better product at a lower price?

By: house_of_pain on 2/23/10 at 6:08

Loner, I'd pay to watch you debate the Israeli ambassador to the US. No s**t.

By: BenDover on 2/23/10 at 6:10

Oh... and btw... your dismissal of Judeo-Christian influence on western culture as it is incorporated in our laws and constitutional rights is ludicrous. You cannot understand western civilization without understanding its roots going back to the early Christian church and further to basic Judaism.

By: dargent7 on 2/23/10 at 6:13

We'll reconvene tomorrow, God willing.
If Jesus returns during the night (a major inconvience) I wish you all front seats in Hell.
I got dibs on the center.

By: brrrrk on 2/23/10 at 6:15

house_of_pain said

"Well, at least we can watch the Olympics, where people will still push themselves to prove they're the best in the business, even though there may not be a big financial windfall waiting at the finish line."

Exactly! And that's another issue I have with the perspective of the "free marketeers". They believe that the only reason people do what they do is because there's a monetary reward at the end of the rainbow. I find this view to be cynical at the least.

I believe, on the other hand, that people are rewarded (or should be rewarded) by other things other than money and that most people who eventually end up making big bucks get those bucks as a result of other goals beside money. How else would you explain people who work in thankless occupations? A perfect example would be an old classmate of mine. He's a doctor who spends most of his time working with the homeless, even going so far as to actually live on the street just to gain the confidence of the homeless community. He could certainly make big bucks doing anything else, but that's not why he became a doctor.

By: BenDover on 2/23/10 at 6:16

Loner, everything on the planet can evolve except our understaing of the divine?

By: BenDover on 2/23/10 at 6:16

Loner, everything on the planet can evolve except our understaing of the divine?

By: brrrrk on 2/23/10 at 6:19

BenDover said

"Oh... and btw... your dismissal of Judeo-Christian influence on western culture as it is incorporated in our laws and constitutional rights is ludicrous. You cannot understand western civilization without understanding its roots going back to the early Christian church and further to basic Judaism."

Hmmmm, was Democracy a Judeo-Christian concept? Not on you life... thank the Greeks for that. Democracy continues IN SPITE of the Judeo-Christian influence.

By: Loner on 2/23/10 at 6:20

Brrrrrk, nice defense of the US Postal Service, you are correct in your analysis, IMO.

We don't cherry pick at the US Postal Service. While others pick and ship the easy, low-hanging fruit, the USPS takes the sweet and the tart cherries, pits and all. We ship 'em,. truck 'em, fly 'em or whatever it takes to deliver 'em. And it' not just the proverbial cherries....we take all the friggin' fruit that needs to friggin' go.....across the fruited plain and beyond.

The American Postal Service is second to none.

By: brrrrk on 2/23/10 at 6:22

One more point....

Organized religions have never been Democratic in nature.... and never will be.

By: Loner on 2/23/10 at 6:53

Ben asks, "Loner, everything on the planet can evolve except our understanding of the divine?"

I don't understand the question in it's present form. Are you saying that "everything" evolves or just living things? How is our "understanding of the divine" analogous to a living organism or a species of organisms?

I guess that ideas "evolve", is this what you are suggesting? If so, no debate on that.

As a Judeo-Christian believer, Ben, do you reject Darwin's theory of evolution? Are you a "young earth" believer.....the idea that our planet is only about 4 to 6 thousand years old? I know that you are an "intelligent design" creationist, do you take the Hebrew Creation story, on page one in Genesis, as being fact or fable?

I believe that non-living chemical compounds, with some , but not all life functions, started the ball rolling; they combined over the eons into something that could carry on all life functions, including reproduction. After that, it was "eat or be eaten", predator/prey relationships developed, natural selection began to work. All modern forms evolved from these earlier forms of life.

I think it all happened right here on earth, by natural, not Divine means. Sure, a meteorite with durable spores could have seeded life on this planet...if so, all life here may have evolved from extra-terrestial origins.

If all the ancestors of all living things alive today were created all at once, in their present forms, during the week of Creation, as the Bible claims, then how is it that we do not find evidence of modern-day plants and animals in the oldest levels of the fossil record?

By: Loner on 2/23/10 at 6:57

Brrrrk, Universalist Unitarians are organized and democratic, check out your local UU church in Nashville; tel lthem Loner sent you. It's dogma-free, no kneelers amn the coffe hour is great. All are welcome there, I'm sure.

By: Loner on 2/23/10 at 7:00

My spelling is going to hell......need meds.

By: brrrrk on 2/23/10 at 7:05

BenDover said

"And, on whole, companies in this country are necessairly operate more efficient than government because they have an incentive to do so."

And what's that incentive.... profit? At what cost? I suppose if you look at things from a religious perspective corporations are better than people because people are inherently evil. On the other hand, the goal of a corporation is pure profit which is an amoral endeavour. There are plenty of companies that make profit at the expense of the worker, at the expense of the investor (Enron), and at the expense of this country. As I stated before, it was Adam Smith that said, capitalism without a moral of ethical component will destroy everything around it and will eventually destroy itself. It's called the cancer stage of capitalism, and we're in it full bore.

By: brrrrk on 2/23/10 at 7:11

Loner said

"Brrrrk, Universalist Unitarians are organized and democratic, check out your local UU church in Nashville; tel lthem Loner sent you. It's dogma-free, no kneelers amn the coffe hour is great. All are welcome there, I'm sure."

Are you nuts?! People that go to those churches down here get shot! I appreciate the invite, but I chose to find my own spiritual path....

By: Loner on 2/23/10 at 7:24

Have some caljones, Brrrrk.....if some nutjob opens up, you'll get on CNN....wear a bullet proof vest, take along some halloween "blood", so that you can play dead in a worse case situation. Be prepared. As for the UU's, give it a shot......... pun intended.

By: Loner on 2/23/10 at 7:35

Red-neck bumper sticker?......Unitarian Universalism.....Give It a Shot.

By: BenDover on 2/23/10 at 7:55

Loner, spontanious life? Sorry dude that flunks the statistics test... so says my Math Degree.

Evolution? Sure... we've observed it and what we've seen doesn't conflict with the Bible. I don't know about species evolving into another species thought. Hell, I really don't think something so complicated as an eye or even a blood cell can just pop into existence without a blue-print. It's just common sense to me. And where's the fossil record of the billions of mutated failures necessary for one evolutionary success?

The bible is written as a literal record in places; as a parable in places; as poetry in places; as philosophy in places... there's plenty of room for interpretation that doesn't infringe on our scientific observations. Trying to discredit it based on a literal interpretation of the first 20 pages is your construction of another strawman though... and it takes little mental energy to chop up a straw-man so it confounds me as to why you continue to resort to the technique.

As for Brushwood... I think a smart long-hair biker debating a well-educated red-neck about such high minded topics would be enough to dampen the panties of any surrounding hippie-chicks who might partake of the conversation along with their herbs.

Over & out dudes... enjoy your evening

bd

By: Captain Nemo on 2/23/10 at 7:57

Good night people. :-)